Looking for a Revolver

[Smitty79]

I want to have one revolver that I can use for as many things as possible without giving too much away.  All would be occasional competition guns, so I am looking at factory "tweaked" guns.  The 3 I am looking at are:

Ruger GP100 Match Champion
Pro's:
Cheapest of the bunch
Out of the box well set up for IDPA.  (I shoot USPSA, but will try IDPA soon.)

Con's:
Only six shooter so would have to load major for USPSA revolver.
357/38 so I would need to add a caliber.   I currently load 9mm and will pick up 45 ACP in the next few months.  (I love my SAR K2 45)

S&W 627
Pro's
8 Shooter.   Best for USPSA

Con's
38/357
Can't really shoot IDPA

S&W 625
Pro's
Softest shooter for major PF
Don't need to add caliber.
Can shoot IDPA.

Con's
Most expensive.
Lots of reloads for USPSA.

Suggestions?   Leaning towards 625 for now.

[DenStinett]

How's about the S&W 686Plus (Seven Shot) ?

[jameslovesjammie]

Major PF
625

Minor PF
627
OR
929 (a 9mm 627)

End of USPSA discussion.  Can't help you with IDPA.

[Smitty79]

How's about the S&W 686Plus (Seven Shot) ?

7 shot is never never land.  It's not 8 for USPSA minor and its not IDPA legal.

[DenStinett]

How's about the S&W 686Plus (Seven Shot) ?

7 shot is never never land.  It's not 8 for USPSA minor and its not IDPA legal.

Don't know any of the Regs
Had no idea you could use an 8 shot, put not a 7 Shot

[jameslovesjammie]

Had no idea you could use an 8 shot, put not a 7 Shot

The "8 shot minor" is a rule that JUST came about this year.  Before, you had to reload at 6 rounds regardless of actual capacity.  You could have 7/8 in the gun, but if you pulled the trigger that one extra time...you get bumped into a different division...where you will lose.

The new rule allows for full 8 round capacity to be used.  That means a 6/7 shot L frame is at a capacity disadvantage to the 8 shot N frame.  It's enough of a disadvantage to require an additional reload on a 30 rounds stage, and that is alot of time to a wheelgunner.

Major PF is still 6 round only.

[DenStinett]

Gotcha
Thanks James

[Wideload]

I've shot my 625 in USPSA and the allowance of 8-shot minor in Revolver has changed the game.  If you are to focus on USPSA (and maybe get into ICORE) I would definitely want the 627 (or 929 if you can find one).     
If you want to try IDPA, (as well as shoot USPSA) 625 with a 4" Barrel would be the "one" that will allow you to compete in both.

Regarding economics of 625s, think about the Moonclips required to feed it vs. those for 627. 
Ranch Products Moons for 625 can be purchased for less than a dollar a piece.  625s with chamfered cylinders are very forgiving with loose/floppy rounds on a moonclip.  (When I shoot Revolver at USPSA matches, I will load and check the moonclips before going to the match so that I do not have to de-moon and reload them for the day.  I use couple boxes that will hold 36 loaded moons each for this purpose)

Go with 627 and you will have an added up-front cost of Hearthco or TK custom and 1000+ .38 Short colts that you will want to get to be competitive.  These high end moonclips are more like $6-8 a piece. 


 

[jameslovesjammie]

Wideload,

In the .38 Special, I know that the groove the moonclip snaps into is changes depending on what brand of brass you are using.  Hearthco used to make clips of differeing thickness to best work with different brands of brass.  Does the .45 ACP suffer from the same dimensional differences?

[Wideload]

There are variances between the .45 ACP cases.  If you want, you can go with a single brand of brass and high dollar moons that match the dimensions for the perfect fit but, I do not believe it's as critical in a .45 ACP revo compared to an eight shooter for the following reasons:

1.  You have to get only 6 rounds to align with the 6 chambers in the cylinder.
2.  The .45 holes are lot bigger than the .357 holes of an 8 shooter.
3.  The .45 ACP is a stubby case with little room to get out of alignment on a moonclip.  Using round nose bullets, they readily drop  into the cylinder with little effort.  The .38 Spcl is noticeably longer and would have greater margin for misalignment. (That is why I suggested 38 Short Colts if going with a 627)

Having stated the advantages of the .45ACP revolver, I have to admit that I would like to get a 627 or 929 in the future. (especially after I shot a match with a friend's 627 and his .38 Short Colts - Starline brass and matched moonclips)  The 2 extra rounds in the cylinder allows you to pursue a more aggressive strategy for shooting a stage.  It also avoids the flat footed reload when someone sets up a stage with series of 8 shot arrays.  I  have to build up that war-chest for the brass and enough moonclips to shoot a 6-8+ stage match, in addition to what is needed to purchase the gun. (and also not get distracted by some other gun related purchase)

[jameslovesjammie]

When I was going to shoot USPSA with my 686, I trimmed .38 Special to 9mm length and used 9mm starting data.  Starline .38 Short Colt brass isn't that expensive, but most of my .38 Special brass was free.   

[Radom]

I have no idea about competition considerations.  To me, autos are for "fun."  Revolvers are serious business.  I carry a S&W J-frame (not listed below).  Here are my revolver recommendations, which I hope translate into some usefulness for you. 

1) S&W K-Frame Combat Masterpiece.  Name says it all.  Also known as a Model 15.  IMHO, it is the only "perfect handgun," and the only model I truly collect.  I have a few CZs that can keep up with these, which is the only reason I stay involved with CZs.  If you can see the target, you can draw and hit it in one fluid motion with a Model 15 in DA mode. 

2) S&W Model 610.  All of the advantages of the Model 25, but it also has the ability to shoot two chamberings: 10mm and .40 S&W.  You can't afford or develop 10mm loads in the variants with barrels shorter than 3."  They aren't worth the $.  FWIW, I have more experience with the Model 25, so the power of 10mm is a significant factor in my rating. 

3) S&W Model 25.  I own the PC Miculek 625 variant and one older 25.  My father has several others.  I've never found one that groups as well with Auto Rim cases as .45 ACP on a moon clip, which seems to be the general consensus.  All are incredibly accurate and natural pointers.  I prefer these and the CZ 97B to any 1911-pattern pistol.  I'm not sure if it is the design, experience, confidence, or a combination of these, but the S&W Model 15 and Model 25 feel like extensions of my right arm.   I'm just about there with the 610.       

4) Ruger Security Six in .357 Magnum.  I prefer S&W to Ruger.  That said, S&W has never made an equivalent model, nor has Ruger ever captured the same balance in subsequent iterations.  If I could only own one handgun, a stainless 4" Security Six might win that contest.  I prefer this model over any S&W in .357 Magnum, regardless of frame/sizes/other considerations.  The DA mode is easily tuned with a mainspring replacement.   Without a doubt, it is the best Ruger model; the GP100 is NOT the same animal, despite the paper specs.     

   

[jameslovesjammie]

Man Radom!  You sure do have a liking for discontinued models!

1) S&W K-Frame Combat Masterpiece.  Name says it all.  Also known as a Model 15.  Discontinued in 1999, re-released in the "classic" line in 2011.

2) S&W Model 610.  Discontinued from 1992-1998, recently discontinued again.

3) S&W Model 25.  I own the PC Miculek 625 variant and one older 25.  625 still available (only in 4" in .45 ACP) but 1/2 underlug barreled blued 25 discontinued a few different times, only available in the "Classic" line.

4) Ruger Security Six in .357 Magnum.  I think you already know the answer to this one!   

[Radom]

The S&W 610 seems to make a miraculous comeback every time the backorders and demand for used ones reach a certain point.   

The Performance Center Heritage Series offered the 15s about eight years back.  The PC Heritage Series models were so overpriced when first offered that I was able to get "new" ones on the secondary market for about half of Lew Horton's original MSRP.  IIRC, the Heritage Series only offered the M-1917 reproduction, not an actual Model 25, though.  (Even at wholesale prices, they weren't cheap like the Model 15s.)  It was hard to find information on these even when they were "current."  They can be good buys, but most people seem to overprice them now.  The actions are tuned to PC standards.  FWIW, the Heritage Series models lack the safety lock. 

The current Classic lineup is fairly paltry:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Category4_750001_750051_757903_-1_757767_757751_image

Some seem to be "no lock," while most of them appear to have them.  I'll have to peruse the S&W Forum.  I haven't paid a lot of attention to the Classic Line, because of their prices.  They seem awfully high for not receiving the PC upgrades.  OTOH, all handgun prices have gone up significantly in the last 8-10 years...