Cz75bd police, cz tactical sport and DW P9

[Chumley]

Well, what do you think?  I need advice and input.  I think I am better than a year and a half ago when I started, but I need to improve.  Two, probably common problems, eyes start blurring after around 15 minutes and arms get weak after around 30.

First target is the 75bd at 20  ft.
 Second is the CZ tactical sport at 20 ft

Third is same gun at 40ft

Then my new handgun, Dan Wesson Pointman Nine

[Lemming]

You have to love the way the ts shoots...
It's a great gun

[Chumley]

It sure is, do you have any suggestions for me based on the targets?

[IronicTwitch]

I switch between my TS and CZ Compact and noticed the same pattern on the heavier trigger.  I found that increasing the grip squeeze and getting a slightly higher grip with my support hand helped a little.  Other than that, I've never been a bullseye shooter, so hopefully someone else can chime in with the finer points of trigger control and conditioning.

[Alpha Sierra]

Don't buy any more handguns.  Spend that money instead on professional training, then on ammo to practice what you were taught.  You will progress faster than you ever thought possible.

At 7 yards, your groups should be a ragged hole or nearly so.  It is impossible to offer any diagnostics or suggestions from some pictures of your targets.

I understand eye sight issues as I deal with them myself, but it arm strength beyond normal does not figure into this.  I think you have a less than optimal grip, this video might be useful:
http://youtu.be/tMzQIHN-LiI

I'm not saying this to be a richard, but I tend to be honest and say what I mean in a plain, direct way.

Be honest with yourself.  Are you ready to let someone deconstruct everything about your shooting and ready to listen to his or her advice and then apply it no matter how hard it might seem initially?

If so look here: http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?140-Training and here: http://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?5-Classes-amp-Training to see if you can find any trainers that will be near you at any particular time.

[Alpha Sierra]

Another guy that is worth paying attention to, plus he's a freaking blast to watch:
http://youtu.be/ChSazF41q-s

[Chumley]

I agree that it is time for lessons, up til now did not feel good enough for that.  I will check with our range.  I asked before but they led to some local retired LE officers.  First video is good.  Some say to grip real tight and others have told me that is not a good idea. I checked out some of the sites that you led me to.  I think I will go to one in October.

[coolbox]

I think get your basics right on the gun you feel you shoot the best. From the evidence at hand, it is either the TS or the PM9.
I generally do not shoot more than 2 guns in one session, unless someone wants me to try his gun out, or something unique turns up that I want to try out. Many of my sessions are planned around one gun only. The second gun is usually the SD gun.

Now, the technique:

-Breathing, take a few deep breaths, then one long breath, exhale about 70-80%, shoot within 6-7 secs.

-Sights, get the sight picture right, then shift focus to front sight only. Let the target blur a bit in background. Do not mind slight wobble of the gun. In the 6-7 seconds, there is a sweet spot where the wobble is minimum. Find it for yourself.

-Trigger, squeeze, straight back. Do not pull or slap/jerk. Squeeze like you would squeeze a lemon..if you get what I mean

-Grip, have a medium firm grip-not too tight. When breaking shot, do not tighten fingers, do not tighten/loosen overall grip, let the trigger squeeze break the shot, but the trigger  should not break your grip or your wrist position. I tell shooters at the range to let the gun fly, its not going anywhere. A lot of shooters anticipate or fight recoil, and get low shots, low left shots and low right shots. Some anticipate and start the recoil before the shot broke, get high shots, high left or high right. Let the recoil cycle run its course, let the gun fly. Do not fight it. Pretend nothing is happening.

-Focus on all above. A bit of dry firing at home always helps (ensure safety at all costs). Do notice what tightening fingers or overall grip does to your gun, after you acquired sight picture. It will help you to focus on this common problem in live fire. This is what I see in your 75BD target.

-Shoot strings of five shots, mark the groups separately, give each shot at least 20-30 sec. Lower your arms after each shot, and breath/relax. Then breath, and raise again. That will help you retain strength for longer periods, and you will have less fatigue in your shoulders, arms, and perhaps even eyes.

Check below link. It is very helpful for basic slow fire precision. Choose what applies, and leave the part for head position/stance if you shoot with double hand grip.

http://www.issf-sports.org/theissf/academy/e_learning/pistol.ashx

[Alpha Sierra]

I agree that it is time for lessons, up til now did not feel good enough for that.

Lessons are for learning and improving, not for showing off what you know, so there is no point in waiting until one is "good enough".

The time to go to them is when you know you're not good enough.

And in reality, we are never good enough because no matter how skilled we might be there is always something that can be improved upon.

Personally, I've never waited until I was "good enough" to jump into the various competitive shooting sports I've enjoyed over the years.  Those who wait for that magic moment end up never doing any of it.

Go with an open mind and with no ego.  Learn, improve, and enjoy your new skills.

[Chumley]

Both of you...thanks.  It took you time to respond and I appreciate that.  If I would have taken more lessons before now I would not have understood or appreciated the input.  You probably forget that when  you are new to this activity there are an awful lot of terms to learn and understand.  A lesson before now would have been of minimal use, but I think I can handle it now. Kind of like a proper swing in golf, at first you have to go through each step in your mind.

Cool box, awesome step by step.

I am looking for someone fairly local and I am thinking about a one day class in October that was on one of your links

[Alpha Sierra]

Whereabouts are you located, if I can ask?  That might help with recommendations and even link ups with more experienced members that could serve as a training/practice partner.

[Chumley]

Milwaukee Wi area

[Firemanjones]

Great suggestions mentioned above.
How often do you go shooting?
If you are switching between different guns, that could throw you off for a while.

[Chumley]

I go every other week.  I am going to stick to two guns per session.  I also am only going to shoot 20 and thirty feet for a while and concentrate on technique