147gr. bullets

[Wobbly]

Just remember that different bullets can give you a different OAL in your barrel. Don't go by what someone else gets or use their load data. That is something you will have to work up yourself.

+1

If every 124gr can't be loaded in the CZ, then the longer 147gr bullets are going to be even more HIGHLY dependent upon the bullet shape. So you can start by completely ignoring anyone that comes on here and says "I load 147gr with no problems" IF they forget to tell you exactly what brand and type bullet they use.

It's sort of like someone bragging they ride horses "everyday". Then when pressed, they tell you it's the horses in front of WallMart. The ones with the coin slot.

IMHO, it's simply a topic that requires full disclosure.

[357MAGNOLE]

I understand, thanks for the inputs.

He was a little more specific and said he used 147G Ibeji Heads

[Wobbly]

I haven't taken the time to search yet but is there a thread compiled of all the reloaders on this forums optimal loads for competition use along with their pistol of choice?

Loads would be highly dependent upon the bullet. Bullets (irregardless of weight), as we're discussing, can be forced to load at anything from 1.160 down to 1.050".

I keep seeing people talking about having to make their OAL on the shorter side for CZ but a local friend that introduced me to CZ's and is a RO here in Fredricksburg said he does 147g ibeji heads with 2.8-3.3g of tite group at a OAL of 1.15, which seems long compared to other reports I'm reading.

My favorites are the RN bullet family from Berry Mfg, which include weights of 124, 130, 135 and 147gr. In my SP-01, those can be loaded all the way out to 1.169", if needed. However to insure free running in the mag, these 147's are generally loaded at 1.150", just as your buddy does. (The less weighty Berry cousins are loaded progressively shorter, simply to get better case support.)

So it's all HIGHLY dependent upon the shape of the ogive as to whether the bullet will load long enough in the CZ chamber to give the reloader some flexibility. The Berry ogive is VERY slender, and affords that flexibility.



Prices direct from Berry's are higher, but they offer good deals on shipping. However, for total delivered price, you can most always do better by buying Berry bullets from one of their distributors like Powder Valley, Rocky Mountain Reloading, etc. As a continuously used competition bullet, you might prefer something in all-lead simply for the price. But as an occasional plinker round, a special load for the wife, or for the guy that simply hates cleaning up the mess all-lead bullets can leave, the Berry 147gr is the best I can recommend. And just for qualification, I fall into the second "occasional" 147gr shooter.

 

[357MAGNOLE]

Thanks for the detailed insight.  Anyone have much experience with the Molly-coated bullets... Such as the Ibeji Heads? From what I have seen they require slightly less powder due to the ease at which they leave the barrel and carry on @ 40-60 FPS faster. 

[Smitty79]

From your sig, you are a squid.   Therefore you are underpaid and under appreciated.   I can't help with the under appreciated other than saying thank you for your service.

I've loaded the following brands of coated bullets:

Bayou
Blue Bullets The 147 Flat point works.   I've can't make the round nose work.
SNS   I didn't try their 147s
Precision Casting (Couldn't make their 147's work for an unmodified CZ barrel.   I shot them from my Glock)
Black Bullets

I've also loaded Berry's 147

All loads were with 7625 or Maxam CSB5.    All made minor power factor.

I liked the Blue as the best accuracy and price performance.    But the accuracy variation was likely me, not the bullets.

I find I like Bayou best for 40 and 45.

All of the brands listed are way less smoky than lead and way cheaper than FMJ.

I've never tried Ibeji Heads.   The mold of their 147 FP looks like almost everyone else's.   If I was looking for a change, I'd buy them and try them.   I didn't see anything bad about them on the Brian Enos forums.    If you are not familiar with that forum, it's for practical shooting sports.   Some of the guys over there shoot more than 20,000 round a year.   My own personal goal is 10,000.

[Wobbly]

About 5-6 years ago I bought and loaded a major pile of moly-coated 147gr from Precision Bullet. They loaded great in my SP-01, they shot well, the company delivered for free, and the packing job was outstanding.... but their delivered price (at that time) was the same as plated. So I never followed up. And this was before I had my chrono so my data collecting was limited.

http://www.precisionbullets.com/store/

Now they are running about $10/1000 cheaper than plated.

 

[2morechains]

I mostly shoot 125 gr RN coated with the same hi-tek coating that Bayou bullets uses.  I'm not sure what's in the hi-tek compound, just know that it comes from Australia where its been used to coat bullets for a long time.  I get my bullets from Leather Head, a local company and one of the co-owners also shoots USPSA. 

My experience with coated bullets is they load similar to plated.  4.2 gr of VV N320 with the 125's give me about 130 PF out of a CZ barrel, about 132 out of a 5" 1911/2011.  Great bullets, and I get them delivered to me at matches.  I load to 1.135" and have not had any issues with these loads in either of my Shadows.

I also have a stash of a few thousand 147 moly's from Bear Creek (northern Cal caster/coater) that work well in my guns.  3.4 gr VV N320 loaded to 1.140" OAL makes about 130 PF out of my CZs and are accurate to boot.  When those are gone I'll probably switch to Leather Heads.  However I mainly shoot the 147's at matches where there are a lot of knock over targets or a chance I may run into a MGM Spinner for the extra umphf of the 147s.  Otherwise majority of the time I shoot 125s. 

[57K]

357MAGNOLE
     Just remember that different bullets can give you a different OAL in your barrel. Don't go by what someone else gets or use their load data. That is something you will have to work up yourself.
     Get all your supplies together & post what you plan to do. I'm still learning & this forum has a great bunch of guys that are will to help you along your way to reload safely.

Well guys, I don't load FMJ and have never really seen any benefit in loading plated over cast so long as you know that a cast bullet should be a minimum of .001" larger than the groove diameter in the barrels they will be fired from. Now that poly-coated bullets are catching on like wild-fire, they're all I use except for JHPs.

As an example, with the older style Blue Bullet's 125 gr. RN (SWC type) that was discontinued, unfortunately, I loaded them to 1.142"/29mm over 6.2 grs. of True Blue for 1122 FPS where the Extreme Spread of 12 was just barely higher than 1 FPS deviation for each of the 10 rounds that went over the Chrono. It's why I've been raving about True Blue for years. Standard Deviation for that load is 3!

For target loads with any type of 147 9mm bullet, True Blue will work exceptionally, if you're lucky enough to find any.

For JHPs, I like the 147 gr. XTP as a defense bullet and have been loading them going back to Vihta Vouri's excellent data of years back using 3N37 for 115, 124 & 147 gr. JHPs. The data was safe then and I've never seen any need to change. I do use the caveat of +P when I mention those loads because in the #2 load guide for instance, the loads were tested with the CIP/PSI method to 36,300 PSI. V-V later went to minimum chamber dimension testing to better fall in line with SAAMI who test both PSI and CUP mid-chamber where CIP/PSI has the transducer forward of the case-mouth and looking closer at PEAK PRESSURE rather than MAX AVERAGE PRESSURE per SAAMI. The CIP system is superior, IMO, and it's also how 5.56mm NATO is rated and why 9mm NATO is higher in pressure/velocity while not carrying a +P label.

I have loaded up to the Max Charge of 3N37 with the 147 gr. XTP where V-V gives an OACL recommendation of 1.142"/29mm. Pretty typical for them and they generally change OACLs in .5mm increments: 1.102, 1.122, 1.142 & 1.161". I do the same and load as long as the chamber will allow. In this case, it won't work for the CZ75 & the 147 gr. XTP. Try 1.122"/28.5mm and see if it will pass the "plunk" test. You still be a good bit longer that load data OACL recommendations. 3N37 works great and the older data was rated 1152 FPS from a 4" test barrel. Because of things like higher sectional density for the 147 gr. 9mm JHP (higher than a 180 gr. .401 or a 230 gr. .451"), it's a 9mm load that gives up nothing to the .40 S&W. One of the very best powders for loads of this type was AA#7. I say "was" because the last I used was from the Czech Republic and I plan to test the American made version in the near future. I test with a Ruger SR9, 4.14" barrel that has no OACL restrictions other than the magazine. I'll work up with 1.142" loads increasing in charge-weight and OACL to 1.161"/29.5mm which consequently is the Max. OACL recommendation for the higher pressure 9 x 21mm.  After I do some chrono testing I'll be better able to make a comparison of the "new" #7 vs. the old #7 that is one exceptional powder for 9mm with JHPs 124 grs. and heavier. Particularly the 147 gr. JHPs and if you happen to have some Golden Sabers, they can be loaded longer for CZ and XD pistols because of the smaller diameter shank above the driving band. Again though, all loads should be tested for the correct OACL in any barrel they're to be fired from.

If you'd like to try this, look at Lyman's data for the SPEER 147 gr. TMJ where the Max. Charge of 7.2 grs. produces a pressure of only 29,000 CUP where 33,000 CUP is Max and equal to the standard pressure rating of 35,000 PSI. The advantage here and with True Blue is that both powders are extremely dense and fine grained. Lyman used an OACL of 1.115" so compression is not an issue and Richard LEE's opinion that compression of spherical powders should never be done is completely without merit. BUT, too much compression with a dense spherical can result in deforming the nose of a JHP. Obviously too much compression. From Rifle reloading we know that load densities above 100% often give the greatest accuracy. There's nothing different when loading handgun cartridges. 3N37 is also spherical, but not nearly as dense or fine grained as AA#7 and True Blue and will compress more easily where loads can be outstanding with the stats to prove it. AA#5 is in the same general burn rate category as True Blue, but not as pressure stable or as Uniform ballistically. For whatever reason, Lyman did not use it with the 147 gr. TMJ. The True Blue load gave a velocity of 1034 FPS (4" test barrel), but at 32,500 CUP, standard pressure is nearly max. It's better used for Target loads where #7 and 3N37 are better choices for defense loads. V-V claims some very impressive performance with the 147 gr. XTP and the newer 3N38 in their data. I have not tried it, but a correspondent told me that at V-V's 1.142"/29mm OACL recommendation, the powder is compressed great enough to deform the nose of the XTP. The simple solution is to load a bit longer for pistols that allow that, but if your CZ will pass the "plunk" test with the 147 gr. XTP loaded to 1.122"/28.5mm, you're still .005" longer than Lyman loaded the SPEER TMJ and the data is easily safe enough for the XTP.