The toughest Woodchuck this side of hell. .

[DCD2015]

About 1990 ,  Not to long after I got out of the Army,  I had my   BRAND NEW conceal carry , a Beretta 92FS, and was sitting on my parents porch visiting. I had been practicing ALOT with my new 92. I was really working on my rapid fire and had got pretty good at it. I could empty a 15 round mag in extreme rapid fire mode and keep them all in a paper plate @ about 20 yards. I thought that new 92 was the cats meow.
 While we were sitting there visiting, a HUGE monster of a  woodchuck came out of their little barn and was eating in their yard about 25 yards away.
Their pet Beagle was standing there about 10 yards from the chuck, just looking at him. The chuck looks at the dog and goes back to eating. I know what they were both thinking. The dog was thinking,  " he is bigger than me, I aint messing with him."  And the chuck was thinking, " he messes with me, I'll kick his beagle butt. "
I remember making the comment about " that's some hunting dog you got there Dad". 
My mom ask if I could get rid of it before it chewed the radiator out of her new car. ( it happened before). I says " sure Mom, NO  PROBLEM"  And I proceed to pull my 9mm out, stepped off the porch, which put me about 20 yards from the woodchuck,  PERFECT !  I'm gonna show him " what for". And as they always said on the range in the Army, I flipped the selector switch from safe to rock and roll, and commenced fire.
 
I started blasting away.  Everytime a bullet hit him, he would roll over a turn, and I just keep pluggin away. And he keeps rolling up through the yard. And of course, the grass and dirt is flying everywhere.  After putting about 10 rounds through the woodchuck, I quit firing, thinking he had so many holes in him,  HE JUST  HAD TO BE DEAD.  The minute I quit firing, he gathers himself up and ran back underneath the barn. 

I'm standing there with a stupid look on my face thinking,     " what the hell  ? ? ?'"
My Mom says something like,   " Well that new gun of your's  aint worth a hoot. "
My Dad said something like,  " Jesus boy, do you want me to get the 30-06? "
I said something about " He musta had a flak jacket on ".
Then we all laughed until we were teary eyed.

Dad  said he did die ,,,, eventually,,, OF LEAD POISONING. . 

And I did take some flak myself over that one.  FOR A LONG TIME.   
I guess  115 grain FMJ's aint the best bullet for killing woodchucks. 

[M1A4ME]

A long time ago an old guy by the name of Elmer Keith tried out the 9MM on jack rabbits.  He said quite often the jack rabbits would jump up and run away after a solid body hit.  He also said the .45 acp would put them down on the spot.

I've shot them with .22 rimfire and .223, but never with a center fire pistol.

[DCD2015]

Well, it might have worked a bit better if the FMJ's were doing something beside just poking a nice neat hole clean through.  On something that small, they acted just like a steel jacket armor piercer. 

One time we bought some Winchester bullets for Elk hunting that were rated for "heavy, thick skinned game. I thought they worked great. I dropped a bull elk @ over 500 + with one shot in a 270 win. . But a few months later, after we got back home, my buddy was using the same ammo for whitetail hunting. He called me complaining that the expensive Winchester ammo we bought wasn't any good. It did cost about double the normal ammo.  When I ask why, he said he had shot a  whitetail buck behind the shoulder several times. He would knock it down, it would stand back up , and so on.  The bullets were not expanding at all in a smaller deer. Just poking a nice neat drill hole clean through.
I told him if he should not use that ammo on deer, But if he was going to,  he better start aiming for the shoulder blades. 

P.s. BTW, I'm  thinkin Ole Elmer might have been a six gun. fanboy. 

[jwc007]

 Hmmm.............

I have killed two Groundhogs with my old WWII Walther P38, loaded with Winchester's 115 grain Silvertip JHP, with only one round each.  They walked right up to me within 20 feet, when I ended their curiosity about what I was doing near my GF's Garden.  These were only of average size, but were full grown adults. One was hit in the shoulder and the other in the head.

I have also killed many of them with my Marlin 782 in .22 Magnum, within 50 yards.  I have also killed many with my Ruger Mini-14, loaded with .223 CCI Speer 52 grain JHP's.
I do recall that one large old Woodchuck took two .223's to stop. First round went onto his lungs, the second blew out his shoulder.  I had been aiming for his shoulder for the first shot, but he moved.

Anything ventilated enough, even with FMJ, will eventually die, but shot placement is critical to killing anything humanely.

As for Deer and Elk, Bullet construction is critical, when choosing your Ammunition.  With my .30/06, I use Bullets in the 150 to 165 grain range for Deer, and I killed a Bull Elk with a 180 grain JSP Bullet many years ago.

[DCD2015]

I have mostly used Winchester silver tips in both the 270 ( 130 & 150 gr) and 30-06 ( 150 gr) since about 1990. They work excellent on deer. Of course I shoot deer in the neck about 90% of the time. On the rare occasion if they are moving, or because of brush in the way, etc,  I will go for the shoulder blades.

Neck shots generally make an exit hole bigger than a quarter, and  the hydraulic shock breaks their neck causing instant death.

The shoulder blade shot will generally blow the bone splinters from the inside of the blade through the lungs and the bullet is generally found just short of exit under the hide. And again, combined with the hydraulic shock,  causing instant death.

I have never had a deer run off using either method with these bullets. They drop where they are shot.
Also on the ballistic charts, the Winchester silver tip ammo is loaded hotter, and even sound much different than other factory ammo. Sadly, they don't make it anymore for the 270 win in 150 grain.  Those bullets would really plow through the brush.

I agree. bullet placement is as important as the bullet type itself.  That well ventilated woodchuck proved that beyond any doubt. 

[M1A4ME]

An animal, wild or not, can take a tremendous wound and not drop/die on the spot.

Years ago, while ground hog hunting regularly during the summers, I only did head shots with the .223 and 45 grain bullets.

I used those hornady and speer bullets with the thin jackets.  The ones designed to make the older/slower .22 centerfires act like a .220 Swift or .22-250.  Two times I had ground hogs run a short distance after being hit. 

Both were standing up and looking away from me.  The bullet hit, the ground hog dropped to all fours and ran ten to twelve feet before stopping.  When I walked up to the spot where they were hit it looked like someone had taken a 4" wide paint brush and smeared red paint from that spot to where the ground hog was lying.  When I turned them over there was no lower jaw, no eyes, no nose, just a red gory hole.  On both the bullet had hit just below the skull/brain BUT TO THE LEFT OF THE BRAIN/BRAIN STEM.  So there was little to no damage to the brain, but terrible damage to the back side of the impact point (the face/nose/eyes/jaw).  The ground hog was hurt and ran the direction it was facing from instinct and bled out very quickly.  But they were not drop dead when hit shots like all the rest that actually hit the brain or the brain stem in the neck.

Those little bullets were awesome at those speeds and with the more fragile jackets.  The only one I hit lower than the neck (up the hill shot across a big meadow) the bullet entered under the left front leg and exited in the right shoulder area.  Basically from the waist up it was a mess and the whole top end was wasted.

Yeah, we ate them.  Young ones (born that year) are just like young rabbits/squirrels, easy to skin (like you would a squirrel or rabbit), quarter them like a squirrel/rabbit, soak them over night in salted water in the fridge, roll them in flour and fry them in the skillet.  Good eating.

The older ones...well, you've got to skin them like a deer (hang them up by the hind legs), then gut them and prepare them the same as you would a rabbit/squirrel for cooking.  However, when you cook them you've got to do something to tenderize the meat.  We used to drop them in a pot, pour in some barbeque sauce and ketchup and boil them for 5 or 6 hours.  The meat just falls off the bones and is tender and tasty.

They are vegetarians, just like rabbits, squirrels and deer.  Grass, weeds, etc.  Just don't gut shoot them.  Nasty.  Another reason to do head shots (if you're going to skin, cut up and cook them).

[jwc007]

Those little bullets were awesome at those speeds and with the more fragile jackets.  The only one I hit lower than the neck (up the hill shot across a big meadow) the bullet entered under the left front leg and exited in the right shoulder area.  Basically from the waist up it was a mess and the whole top end was wasted.

Yeah, we ate them.  Young ones (born that year) are just like young rabbits/squirrels, easy to skin (like you would a squirrel or rabbit), quarter them like a squirrel/rabbit, soak them over night in salted water in the fridge, roll them in flour and fry them in the skillet.  Good eating.

The older ones...well, you've got to skin them like a deer (hang them up by the hind legs), then gut them and prepare them the same as you would a rabbit/squirrel for cooking.  However, when you cook them you've got to do something to tenderize the meat.  We used to drop them in a pot, pour in some barbeque sauce and ketchup and boil them for 5 or 6 hours.  The meat just falls off the bones and is tender and tasty.

Very Interesting!    I've had a couple that were roasted. Delicious!!! 

[M1A4ME]

jwc007, I brought some left overs up to my soon to be in-laws house one day when I was visiting my soon to be wife.

The chunks of meat (it falls off the bone if cooked long enough) were in a small Tupperware container I left on the kitchen table as I passed through to the living room.  I asked my (soon to be - STB) STB mother-in-law where my STB father-in-law was (we were big shooting buddies after he found out I liked to hunt/shoot) and she said he was in the bathroom.

I was in the living room with my STB wife when he came out, waved at us and then headed on down the hallway to the kitchen.

This is the conversation we heard -

STB FIL - what's that?
STB MIL - I don't know, Jim left it on the table when he came in.
STB FIL - Mmmm.  That's good.  Try some.
STB MIL - Wow, that is good.  What is it?
STB FIL - I don't know, ask Jim.  Mmmm.  It really is good.
STB MIL - You ask him.
STB FIL - Jim!!  What is this?
Me - What do you think it is?
STB FIL - It's barbecued duck, right?
ME - Nope.
STB FIL - It's barbecued rabbit, right?
Me - Nope.
STB MIL - Well, what is it?
Me- Barbecued ground hog.
STB MIL and FIL - spitting out the "good" barbecued meat and hollering - Don't you ever bring this stuff up here again, never!

Funny how it turned from boy this is really good to oh it's nasty and don't ever bring it around again. 

You'll have to add some water every so often as it boils down and you don't want it to cook dry.

[DCD2015]

I have not eat one in years and years.  My Grandmothers would soak our small game in salt water over night,   then cook them up. She  made a pot pie out of our game that was mouth watering delicious.  Grey squirrel pot pie was my favorite. She would also can venison in a homemade vegetable stew. We grew up on venison and small game. We had access to hunt on 2 different family farms and woodchucks were plentiful. We had one old timer up the road who would pay my older brother and I for head shot woodchucks. He loved em.

Funny how some folks think its ok to eat  15 cheap generic  hotdogs  a week, but winch at eating game animals. They really should go to a meat packing house sometime and see how their beloved hotdog is made. 

[jwc007]

Funny how some folks think its ok to eat  15 cheap generic  hotdogs  a week, but winch at eating game animals. They really should go to a meat packing house sometime and see how their beloved hotdog is made. 

Yes, that's soooo true!