CZ vz.038 - Swiss Army pistol trial of 1946/edit: 1948

[OTD]

Greetings,

I just logged in and became a forum member. This is my first post. I?m SIG collector form Switzerland, without any experience on CZ pistols. The reason I?m here is because I?m lookng for some information on a specific CZ pistol that was tested in the Swiss Army pistol trials of 1946.

The reference source* is describing it as a CZ model/Vz. 038 ? not to be confused with the Vz.38 ? with a delayed blow back action as known from the Vz.52 service pistol. Unfortunately there is no picture of it.

Is this pistol type known? Was it a short lived project? Could it be possible that the Vz.038 was a prototype / concept study of the Vz.52 or is it possible that it was an export version of the Vz.52 in 9mm Luger. Can somebody shed some light on this mysterious pistol? Thanks for your help.

*Begegnung mit einer Legende ? SIG SP47/8, P210; Armbruster/Kessler.

[LittleJenny]

I checked the two books I have on Czech firearms and didn't see any reference to a model Vz.038.  Development of the Vz.52 started in 1947. It was originally to be in 9mm Parabellum but was switched to 7.62x25 Tokarev because of Soviet 'influence'.  I'm not saying there wasn't a pistol submitted but I would wonder if it was a new design considering the war had just ended And Czechoslovakia was in the progress of recovering (and trying to fend off the Soviets, unsuccessfully).  I'll see if I can find out any more information.

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[OTD]

Thanks for your reply. It seems like I quoted an error form the source I mentioned. The Swiss trials had been held 1948 ? which I should have known.

Another source on the same theme is mentioning this CZ Vz.038 also, but as forrunner of the later Czech service pistol vz.52. The pistol is and its performance is filed in the documentations to this trial, but a sample piece is missing unfortunately.

So if the development of the CZ52 start 1947 as a 9mm it?s most likely that an early prototype could have been used in the Swiss pistol. trials. The question is if Cz Vz.038 could have been used as a project designation for the 9mm pistol that became the Vz.52? Where would it be possible to find a picture of such a pre Vz.52 in 9mm? Thanks again for your help.

FYI. The CZ pistol did very well in this trial and was favored over the SIG, but the SIG was finally chosen due to the political situation in Czechoslovakia.

[donp326]

Take a look at my thread and a picture of a CZ or VZ-46 which is another version of the German P.38, hence the VZ.038.  That might answer a some of your questions.  The Czechs used these captured guns immediately after WII until the CZ-52 appeared and replaced them.  They also manufactured them from parts from the captured Spreewerk factory at Werk Grottau in Czechoslovakia.

[OTD]

Thanks for the support. I found the answere. The CZ pistol used in the Swiss trials was a CZ 482., one of the original prototypes of the CSSR Vz52.

It seems like there's errors, even in expensive reference books.

[LittleJenny]

Very interesting.  Can you imagine the Swiss army with CZ 52s?  ?

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[OTD]

Every interest goup would be excited if it?s prefered brand would have been more successful, but I doubt that a true CSSR type vz.52 in .30TT, as we know it would, have beeen accepted. It rather would have been a licensed production in Switzerland based on the CZ 482 modified and made to Swiss specs. Nobody would have had protested  if such a pattern had been produced in Switzerland if it was as good as the Luger 06/29 it should have replaced.

[miguel]

So, there is!

[OTD]

Thanks for the picture. I know the source. If you own the picture or have information on this pistol, its designer and the cooperation between CZ and the Swiss DoD, would it be possible to discuss details?

[miguel]

I do not own the picture, and the only information I have about this gun is from the internet. The names of constructors are known - brothers Jan and Jaroslav Kratochvil. The same brothers were authors of Cz vz. 50 7.65mm gun - both guns are pretty simmilar in shape and of course they have similar functionality of safety lever/decocker. Testing was provided in Wallenstadt during the October 1948. In accuracy test, cz pistols were better than SIG 210. There are still three prototypes of the gun, but I don't know where.

[OTD]

Thanks for this information. Where have you got the information from about the three existing prototypes. Authors like Heer, Rheinhardt or Armbruster mention the pistols to be vanished. It would be nice if you could provide details to the source so I can continue with my reserach.

[miguel]

From here:

http://martinhessler.blog.cz/en/1001/7-62mm-pistole-vz-52-1-cast

[OTD]

thanks, that's what I was looking for and I hope to get more imput from that source. The text about is pretty identical with the text passages found in Heer.

[shaneb1]

There are currently 4 books written on Czech C&R pistols that have been written in English. They arent easy to find, or cheap, but all the info you seek is in the one large book. I own all 4 if you still need help with this let me know.