Author Topic: Composite vs. Metal framed handguns..........my opinion, whats yours?  (Read 8142 times)

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Offline wdbutcher

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Re: Composite vs. Metal framed handguns..........my opinion, whats yours?
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2016, 11:03:00 PM »
I like them both. I seem to be more accurate with my all steel CZ, but I'd rather carry my P-07. I see that a lot of different members are more accurate with their poly framed guns. With  inserts and other replaceable parts available the poly framed pistols should last nearly as long as the metal framed guns.
I wish I had the opportunity put a 1000 rounds through every poly framed and steel framed pistol available. It would interesting to know what my opinion would be after that experience ;) I'd be more than willing to give it a try :)

Offline RSR

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Re: Composite vs. Metal framed handguns..........my opinion, whats yours?
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2016, 01:51:18 AM »
I have a polymer framed Beretta PX4SC (carried most often), Nano for the pocket, Polymer stocked Weatherby Vanguard .243 Win and Polymer stocked InLine Muzzle loader.  All are excellent.  That said, I do prefer metal esp SS firearms and walnut stocks unsealed, for my own wood youth oil rubbing --  good for the soul.

Well, most polymer stocked rifles have all metal actions, upper receivers, etc...  There are some rare cases that don't.  My main gripe about most polymer stocks is that they're loud when banged on branches, etc, in the woods.  Not the same as polymer handguns in my opinion.  Polymer vs wood vs metal furnitured rifle is more about looks than function most of the time...

Offline RSR

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Re: Composite vs. Metal framed handguns..........my opinion, whats yours?
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2016, 02:00:56 AM »
I like them both. I seem to be more accurate with my all steel CZ, but I'd rather carry my P-07. I see that a lot of different members are more accurate with their poly framed guns. With  inserts and other replaceable parts available the poly framed pistols should last nearly as long as the metal framed guns.
I wish I had the opportunity put a 1000 rounds through every poly framed and steel framed pistol available. It would interesting to know what my opinion would be after that experience ;) I'd be more than willing to give it a try :)

Well, steel frames can typically be repaired to function if damaged.  Stainless and alloy are more difficult than standard steels, but can also be done with more difficult gas welding, shielded metal arc welding usually won't work for these. 

Polymer can only be repaired once broken only by inserting new steel supports into the polymer to rebuild and reattach...  Some interesting work done by folks converting some HK gun to a G36 clone: http://www.houstongunandrange.com/gun-reviews-discussions/2817-do-kind-yourself-hk-g36-rifle.html
« Last Edit: November 27, 2016, 11:34:01 PM by RSR »

MP2 Guy

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Re: Composite vs. Metal framed handguns..........my opinion, whats yours?
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2016, 08:59:14 PM »
Being old (and old fashioned) I lean towards steel but do own two polymer CZs (P07 and P09) and they are in my shooting rotation right along my other handguns (to include lead filled Jericho 941F and 941FS).  I have found that, for whatever reason, I shoot better with my heavier pistols.

Offline mtang45

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Re: Composite vs. Metal framed handguns..........my opinion, whats yours?
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2016, 11:29:24 AM »
I have been shooting handguns my whole adult life and started shooting pre-polymer days when the choices were limited to steel or alloy. When Glock hit the market I was all into the new lightweight pistols and became a polymer fanatic, relegating my steel framed guns to either a life in the safe or the classified section.

As I got older, still shooting polymer, I found that shooting was becoming uncomfortable to my hands for extended shooting sessions. My finger joints would ache, not bad enough to make me quit shooting but noticeably uncomfortable. One day I switched back to shooting a steel framed gun and the difference was like night and day. The steel was so much more comfortable to shoot and no more joint discomfort. This made me do a side by side comparison in which I discovered that with the polymer I could literally feel a flex and snap back that sent sharp vibrations into my fingers. I never felt this when I was younger but definitely became obvious about 10 years ago. Its probably the primary reason I became a CZ fan; they were one of very few manufactures that still offered a non-1911 style pistol in a steel frame.

I still shoot plastic guns but I have switched back to steel framed guns as my primary shooters

bluedev84

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Re: Composite vs. Metal framed handguns..........my opinion, whats yours?
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2016, 11:13:01 PM »
Originally started this post and wasn't sure what I was in for, but there have really been some insightful comments.........keep'em coming.  I can't say I'm running out to get a "composite" material gun tomorrow but I may give them a second look from now on.......CZ style of course  ;)

Offline RSR

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Re: Composite vs. Metal framed handguns..........my opinion, whats yours?
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2016, 11:36:44 PM »
I have been shooting handguns my whole adult life and started shooting pre-polymer days when the choices were limited to steel or alloy. When Glock hit the market I was all into the new lightweight pistols and became a polymer fanatic, relegating my steel framed guns to either a life in the safe or the classified section.

As I got older, still shooting polymer, I found that shooting was becoming uncomfortable to my hands for extended shooting sessions. My finger joints would ache, not bad enough to make me quit shooting but noticeably uncomfortable. One day I switched back to shooting a steel framed gun and the difference was like night and day. The steel was so much more comfortable to shoot and no more joint discomfort. This made me do a side by side comparison in which I discovered that with the polymer I could literally feel a flex and snap back that sent sharp vibrations into my fingers. I never felt this when I was younger but definitely became obvious about 10 years ago. Its probably the primary reason I became a CZ fan; they were one of very few manufactures that still offered a non-1911 style pistol in a steel frame.

I still shoot plastic guns but I have switched back to steel framed guns as my primary shooters

Odd, but I believe it and have experienced it...  Odd b/c I find that polymer triggers kill a lot of tactile feedback on action movement while the steel triggers transmit more rapidly...  But I guess metal harmonics constantly vary and plastics/polymers behave differently in different applications as well...

Offline Pilot1

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Re: Composite vs. Metal framed handguns..........my opinion, whats yours?
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2016, 10:37:24 AM »
I have nothing against polymer.  It works.  I have shot Glocks, and they are fine, and I was even able to get good accuracy my first time around.  I can see why people swear by them.  However, I prefer the feel, and ergos of metal framed pistols.  My CZ-75's just feel better to me than the P-07, and P-09 to me, but if I did pick up a polymer pistol it would be a CZ.  I'd like to shoot a P10C.

A few years ago, I did own an HK USP .45 Tactical with the ideas of installing a can.  I sold it, as I couldn't warm up to it.  YMMV. 

Offline Dodge807

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Re: Composite vs. Metal framed handguns..........my opinion, whats yours?
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2016, 11:14:16 AM »
I use to own a High Point .40, never had a problem with it (probably because it was a big heavy gun) sold it and got a Ruger SR40, violent gun to shoot, would be horrible for a follow up shot. haven't sold it, it is my bedside gun but I haven't shot it in over a year. just recently picked up a 75B .40 have put about 100 rounds thru it and it is twice a stable as the Ruger. would like to try a P07 or P09. currently I don't really care for the polymer guns, but like I said I haven't tried a CZ

Offline Firemanjones

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Re: Composite vs. Metal framed handguns..........my opinion, whats yours?
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2016, 09:35:51 AM »
My first polymer was the PX4 C. Before it I only wanted metal. Now I have numerous in both and my two favorite range guns are the 75BD and P-09.
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Living the dream, driving a Fire Engine RETIRED shooting my Guns in FL and the Mountains of NC and visiting family in Mannheim.

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Composite vs. Metal framed handguns..........my opinion, whats yours?
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2016, 12:00:05 PM »
Frame flex is a non-issue firing off-hand.  The bullet is out of the barrel before anything flexes.  Now, if you pin the grip rigid in a gun vise, it's a little different, but it's a non-issue fired off hand.  Off hand, the polymer absorbs some of the shock, but there's no flex reducing mechanical precision.  Metal receivers have no advantage in this regard.

Metal pistols feel smoother because they're heavier, and mass is the primary mitigating factor against recoil.

More convertible in terms of grip variety?  There's a sleeve of every contour to match whatever you might do to a metal-framed pistol, there are easy stippling options, and many polymer pistols come with multiple grip inserts to change grip size and profile.  On the whole, this is clearly an advantage for polymers over metal frames.

The notion of them handling more rounds over years of use seems like one of those assumptions that is so widely held that it's treated as fact.   The slide and barrel are what get abused in terms of long-time durability.  And the barrel and slide are steel on both types of pistols.  I wouldn't assume the material of either frame lends itself to long-time durability, unless, of course, I factored in corrosion, in which case -- advantage polymer.

The extra mass of an all-metal pistol is an advantage in a number of applications, as illustrated by Joe L, but it's a disadvantage in others.   Durability is a myth at worst and an assumption at best.  How long a pistol will function reliably and how long a part will function without breaking is matter of design, not whether or not the receiver is polymer or metal.  The 1911 is the god emperor of metal pistols, and it's not know for impeccable reliability.  It's known for needing tune-ups. ;)

I'm not downing metal.  It's just a non-factor in most of the reasons we give when explaining why we prefer one over another.  It's all bias and arbitrary preference and, honestly, FAR too often, it's ungrounded romantic sentiment.


Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Composite vs. Metal framed handguns..........my opinion, whats yours?
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2016, 07:31:03 PM »
Nothing wrong with a good old Colt 1911.  My oldest is 100 years old next year.  Shot it back in the summer.  185 grain and 200 grain LSWC, 200 grain LRN (with a flat spot on the end) and 230 LRN.  It all fed, fired, ejected.  The kids got a kick out of firing such and old gun and having it work every time.

If everybody and his uncle made CZ 75's they wouldn't really be "CZ" 75's but people would bad mouth the real thing over the problems with copies.

Sorry.  When you own 4 Colt 1911's and all of them are impeccable (if you don't mind the Series 70 denting case mouths now and then) you just have to speak up when you hear 1911's aren't reliable.  My Combat Commander will feed one empty case after another from the magazine to the chamber.  Never a hiccup.

I need to try that on the P07 and P09.  Just to see.  They might do it, too.

Reliability is a combination of

Design,

Parts manufacture/quality (some aftermarket parts makers shouldn't be in business)

ammunition (not all of it works in every gun)

maint/cleaning/lubrication

magazines (another part in a way but some folks insist on buying cheap aftermarket mags - not just for 1911s and then blaming function issues on the gun)

then again, some people really shouldn't be modifying/working on their guns (or their buddy's guns).
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline donp326

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Re: Composite vs. Metal framed handguns..........my opinion, whats yours?
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2016, 06:56:24 AM »
With a good belt and holster I have never had a "Too Heavy" issue with my CZ-75 pre B or the Browning High Power the I carry plus two magazines too.
CZ-75 pre b
SIG P-220
Browning 1971 High Power

Offline Pilot1

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Re: Composite vs. Metal framed handguns..........my opinion, whats yours?
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2016, 11:15:51 AM »
My alloy framed 75D PCR is lighter than the polymer P-07.