Another P-10C commentary

[armoredman]

Not someone I know, but apparently a Japanese shooter who was impressed with the pistol.

http://www.breachbangclear.com/czp10c-new-striker-fired-polymer-pistol/

This quote from the article is interesting;

[The] CZ P10C has Grip of M&P, Bore access of STEYR M-A1, Safety of Glock, Trigger of VP9, Ergonomics of custom Glock from gunsmith and price of XDM. It?s a polymer pistol done right.?

[Joe L]

The grip looks more like what I need (more oval than a P-09/07, like a 75) so maybe I will be able to use less Sugru on a P-10 than I needed on a P-07/09!!  If the trigger is smooth I can still live with a 4 lb trigger, at least initially, and until I figure out how to get it to 3 lbs 0 oz, safely, of course. 

I'm going to shoot my CZ-97 a bunch on Sunday, just to get the year off to the perfect start.  That pistol is at the opposite end of the spectrum from a P-10c!!  Maybe I should shoot my (now) iron sight P-07 instead? That should be pretty close to a P-10c, at least out of the pile of pistols I have.  (No plastic guns other than a PM-40 and three P series pistols.)

I am ready for a challenge!!  As in P-10, or even a P-10c.  Soon.  Very soon. 

Joe

[armoredman]

I won't be shooting tomorrow, but soon, very soon, the P-09 will be out aking noise. No idea when/if I will get to shoot a P-10C, but looking forward to it!

[flattusmaximus78]

Great article. I definitely wouldn't mind a slight palm swell in my P09. As is, if I feel like it, I can conceal it due to the thin grip.

[Majin]

CzP10 missed the most important feature of the G19.. The shorter grip so that it can be easily concealed!

[cntrydawwwg]

Great article. I definitely wouldn't mind a slight palm swell in my P09.

   Couldn't agree more. That's the only downside to my Phantom. Added a Houge Handall and it's perfect. But, I don't like rubber on a carry piece, so I like that they added a slight palm swell. Maybe the next Gen. of 07's & 09's will benefit as well. [emoji848]

[armoredman]

Mahin,it looks that with the magazines inserted, the height difference is pretty small.I can tell you with a good holster and good belt you can conceal a pretty big sidearm - I carry my Cajunized P-09 in a High Noon hybrid rig under a loose t-shirt pretty easily.

[Cyanide]

If the P-10C is virtually identical in size to the P-07, then grip length is a moot point (to me anyway). I no longer have any Glocks because of finger grooves in the wrong location, causing my fingers to be all bunched up in addition to the annoying lower backstrap hump. Sure, I could remove the finger grooves and have a grip reduction done, in addition to a high trigger guard undercut, but I shouldn't have to spend that kind of money modifying the grip so that the pistol will work for me, especially not when there are other options that require nothing at all.

As an official disclaimer however, Glock make a fine, reliable pistol. I just won't have anymore unless I have a ton of money laying around to do all the necessary modifications for it to fit my hand and be what I want it to be. The last picture below shows exactly what I am in reference too.

[TimeOnTarget]

CzP10 missed the most important feature of the G19.. The shorter grip so that it can be easily concealed!

I think that is a fair criticism. This may be a factor for those of us who appendix carry.

Maybe we will see user modifications cutting/dremmeling away some of the bottom portion of the grip inserts...

[rhart]

I think the P10C missed the most important feature of most other CZs - the slide -in-frame with the accompanying lower bore axis... As it is, the Glock has a lower bore axis. In most of the videos I noticed a fair amount of muzzle flip in initial shots of the P10C until the shooter compensated with a stronger grip. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems the P10C is a like a S&W M&P clone with a much better trigger.

[Joe L]

rhart-The bore axis thing is one item I'll try to quantify when I get a P-10C.  Think about it.  On a hammer gun, you have to build the frame dimensions around the hammer--allowing room for the hammer to swing.  With a striker, you don't need as much room since there is no hammer swing.  You have to allow room below the barrel axis for the trigger bar and for the barrel drop and that is about it.  I don't think the rails inside/outside make much difference on the actual bore height dimension.  The optical illusion is there, as the seam we see is lower in the P-10C than a 75, but the distance from the centerline of the barrel to the top of your wrist may not be affected much.  My opinion is that they changed the rails inside/outside to provide more grip area on the slide and to take that concern off the table. 

The geometry of the grip is important to me.  A very high grip at the rear of the gun with a low bore axis, may not feel right if the trigger pivot is still low in the frame and you have to angle your fingers down to center your trigger finger on the trigger.  The more parallel one's trigger finger is to the barrel axis, the more comfortable it is to at least operate the trigger.  A manufacturer can lower the grip bore axis a bunch, raise your wrist on the frame, then force the shooter to angle his fingers down to the trigger if the trigger pivot to bore axis dimension isn't also reduced as well. 

Everything is a compromise in pistol design.  Some compromises work out better than others, depending on the type of shooting and the size/shape of the shooter's hands.  Can't wait to see how it works out for us.

Joe

[rhart]

rhart-The bore axis thing is one item I'll try to quantify when I get a P-10C.  Think about it.  On a hammer gun, you have to build the frame dimensions around the hammer--allowing room for the hammer to swing.  With a striker, you don't need as much room since there is no hammer swing.  You have to allow room below the barrel axis for the trigger bar and for the barrel drop and that is about it.  I don't think the rails inside/outside make much difference on the actual bore height dimension.  The optical illusion is there, as the seam we see is lower in the P-10C than a 75, but the distance from the centerline of the barrel to the top of your wrist may not be affected much.  My opinion is that they changed the rails inside/outside to provide more grip area on the slide and to take that concern off the table. 

The geometry of the grip is important to me.  A very high grip at the rear of the gun with a low bore axis, may not feel right if the trigger pivot is still low in the frame and you have to angle your fingers down to center your trigger finger on the trigger.  The more parallel one's trigger finger is to the barrel axis, the more comfortable it is to at least operate the trigger.  A manufacturer can lower the grip bore axis a bunch, raise your wrist on the frame, then force the shooter to angle his fingers down to the trigger if the trigger pivot to bore axis dimension isn't also reduced as well. 

Everything is a compromise in pistol design.  Some compromises work out better than others, depending on the type of shooting and the size/shape of the shooter's hands.  Can't wait to see how it works out for us.

Joe

I agree with your descriptions. I end up angling my trigger finger down on most guns to pull the trigger - except not so much with SIG style guns. When showing the RO that my finger is out of the trigger guard while changing mags, I have to angle my trigger finger up with a SIG whereas my finger is more or less straight along the pistols frame of gun designs like the CZ 75. With my Glock 19 I had to be carefull of "slide bite" due to my high grip until I installed an after market beaver tail - which restricts the high grip somewhat and effectively alters the bore axis.