Author Topic: Trigger pack take down pin  (Read 2303 times)

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Offline ericf

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Trigger pack take down pin
« on: March 12, 2019, 12:56:03 PM »
On my new scorpion carbine there is quite a bit of "free play" between the trigger pack and receiver at the forward take down pin. (its a known irritant)
Also, The empty magazines will not drop free (open bolt) even after verifying the magazine "mod" isnt needed. I've determined that the bolt hold open lever is the cause of the mag binding and have further determined the "free play" between receiver and trigger pack is a pin size issue. Actually , the pin size is cause of the mag issue too. When the bolt-catch stops the bolt on an empty magazine, the catch is being pushed forward (on the pin) and canting into the mag well (slightly). This creates a wedge effect that binds the magazine. Way too much back info thats not really needed.

Can anyone tell me their pin diameter?
My pin diameter is measuring at .191.
The holes in the receivers (trig pack and upper) is measuring .206
A lot of slop is causing issues.
I was tempted to order parts but wanted to be sure of what is a standard size pin.
I just found out the forward assembly pin is not an inexpensive part.

Thanks for any help.
 

Offline 00goobs

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Re: Trigger pack take down pin
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2019, 07:50:26 PM »
I made one 5mm and it is tight in the holes, but the bolt hold open latch is 4.8mm, so unless that is drilled to 5mm, 4.8mm is the biggest diameter I could get on my Scorpion (later version).

Offline ericf

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Re: Trigger pack take down pin
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2019, 08:59:39 AM »
Thanks, Right after I posted this, I found the thread by you and others. Duh!!!
one thing, the offending tapered area on the pin at the head , where the bolt release slops around appears to be there to keep the pin from walking out. The spring tension on the release should retain the pin in place via this cut taper.
My lower and upper had a lot of play at this pin. +- 2mm . It didnt effect function, but was irritating none the less. I used a product called Apoxie sculpt (amazon) and and very carefully cleaned and then coated the pin channel in the upper with it. lubed the pin well and pushed it through. that solved the receiver slop issue.   But the mag not dropping is another irritant.     

Offline ericf

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Re: Trigger pack take down pin
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2019, 10:56:06 AM »
00goobs,
Well, Its done.
The apoxie sculpt was the fix for the looseness between the receivers.
And regarding the mags not dropping free when bolt is held back by the release, I cut or filed an angle on the top edge of the small arm that the mag follower contacted and pushed up the lever to lock the bolt open. I saw that it is cut square and when pushed up by the follower the lever arm bound into the magazine. Others have cut the mag in this area. I elected to just file an angle so that there isnt any interference with the magazine. I then had to clean up the front "pad" on the magazine by smoothing it to remove the mold seam . Perfect!!

Offline freenc

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Re: Trigger pack take down pin
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2019, 02:42:38 PM »
Can you take a pic of how you used the apoxie? I want to try that myself. Thanks.

Offline ericf

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Re: Trigger pack take down pin
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2019, 07:49:14 PM »
The pic wont show anything thats going to be readily visible.
But I can tell you how!
the apoxie sculpt is a product available on amazon in 1lb amounts (good shelf life)
I used the black colored . There is a 4 hour working time after mixing 50/50. Hardens in 6 hours and cures completely overnight. I discovered that mixing with a small spatula and then using fingers to smash it around works best. the heat of the fingers appears to soften it some making it more pliable.
I cleaned out the hole (pin channel) in the upper receiver with acetone . clean well.
I used a small stainless welding wire, Or anything small and stiff , and place small "BB's " of the apoxie into the channel and molded it to the bottom (away from body of receiver) rolling the wire around inside the channel. If the material wants to stick to the wire. use spray silicone as a lube on the wire. Saliva works best. After getting it sort of placed, I used a drill bit (smooth shaft end) to do a final smoothing rolling it out inside channel. (use a lot smaller dia. than take down pin). You want to achieve a crescent shaped addition of the apoxie inside the channel. Thicker on the bottom and tapering as it goes up the sides. None should be applied to the top. It doesnt need to be thick. 1mm thickness in the bottom should be more than enough. I used the drill bit shaft like a rolling pin to smooth it and get it shaped.  For the final, I assembled everything and hand held receivers tightly together. Spray pin with silicone multiple times and let carrier dry some.Then slowly twist pin across into place. there should be some material pushed out as its comes across. Rotate it as you go. Keep the left over apoxie material available to test for setup.
When your fingernail will dent the material, but it cant be deformed under finger pressure, rotate the pin to free any adhesion to pin and carefully remove pin. Separate halves and using a razor blade cut off any flashing from upper channel (saliva again works for a lube). Look for any other material that should be removed . re clean pin and lube it very sparingly. Reassemble with pin pushed across and in place and set aside for 24 hours. The hole (channel) should have a crescent moon shaped sliver of apoxie in the bottom all the way across and up the sides of the channel.
On mine, So far , so good. It's tough stuff. I've used it for bedding compound on rimfires .
One thing, if there are voids or missing areas, you can add to it and it will stick to itself. it just has to be cleaned of oils.
With the apoxie being black and receiver black, it doesnt show as a "modification".
I've taken the scorpion apart numerous times for cleaning and the apoxie isnt being affected.
hope this helps

Offline freenc

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Re: Trigger pack take down pin
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2019, 11:02:44 PM »
Ericf, that was an awesome write up. Thanks for doing this for me. Very much appreciated.

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