Bren 805 vs VZ58

[DDNC]

I do like the new Bren (only in the short barrel model) but I'll go with x39 over 5.56 any day of the week and the 58's I have are as accurate as any other 5.56 I own, including a vz58 in 5.56.

[RSR]

Caliber selection really depends on the individual/use...

But I think a first focal plane 7.62x39 bdc optic would be pretty stellar for helping to use this caliber at range (and it does hold more energy at range than 5.56, it just drops a bunch more too...):


The problem with the VZ58 and optics though is that due to ejection setup, you're stuck w/ pretty much just a fixed zoom optic w/o a monolithic top rail which currently isn't available (you can diy your own deflector, but that's more work than most are willing to do...).

So that's the Bren's primary advantage as I see it -- the monolithic top rail.  And the other is the burst function which is also absent on the VZ58.  Otherwise, they're pretty equivalent.   

But bear in mind that the reason the Bren was designed as it was, was to be multi-caliber capable.  (It isn't as of yet as they couldn't make it reliable...)  So recognizing the compromises made to support multiple calibers and then not being multi-caliber as of present, there were undoubtedly compromises made to allow that feature that weren't ideal in other respects...  Moreover, modern militaries fight with optics.  When you're removing and replacing the barrel, you either need to remove and replace your optic and reinstall at the same rail location or rezero your current optic for the new barrel/caliber.  Vs what special forces do alread with a CQB upper and a longer accurized mid-length or rifle upper for general and longer range use...  The optics and the barrels remain mounted so it's just a matter of pulling two pins and swapping complete uppers.  (The vz58 obviously lacks this AR capability, but it could have been modernized/redesigned to allow for either a quick change or AR type barrel install (the latter requiring headspacing).  For either, a wrench is much easier to move around than a shop press...

http://www.tactical-life.com/gear/colts-m4a1-556mm-carbine/
Here's an example of a sopmod kit:

The two kits are painted with red numbers on all their components to identify their owners. Kit #4 is well worn with not much of its desert-colored spray paint remaining. Contrast that beat-up weapon to the pristine newness of the kit belonging to SEAL #16 and you?d wonder why there?s such a difference. Well, kit #16 belongs to a SEAL who is a machinegunner, and consequently all his pre-deployment work-up has been with his belt-fed and not his M4. SEAL #4, on the other hand, is an assaulter, so all his work has been with his M4 as his primary.

[DDNC]

A Bren 805 with the 12 inch barrel in 7.62x39 that uses AK mags, that would be my preference.

[RSR]

But is it worth the 50+% more than a Vz  58 in a carbine configuration and ~25% more after you add rails.  And is it more reliable than a Galil ACE in 7.62x39 which weighs about the same?

Take a look at the Galil ACE -- what the Columbians/Indumil did w/ the Galil is what the Czechs should have done w/ the VZ58...  Same milled receiver, same internal functions, largely the same parts, but with better ergos and allowing the platform to support modern technlogies/outfits/etc.

[DDNC]

But is it worth the 50+% more than a Vz  58 in a carbine configuration and ~25% more after you add rails.  And is it more reliable than a Galil ACE in 7.62x39 which weighs about the same?

Take a look at the Galil ACE -- what the Columbians/Indumil did w/ the Galil is what the Czechs should have done w/ the VZ58...  Same milled receiver, same internal functions, largely the same parts, but with better ergos and allowing the platform to support modern technlogies/outfits/etc.

For that price point, no. I don't care for the new galil or its price either. I like the earlier design.

[RSR]

For that price point, no. I don't care for the new galil or its price either. I like the earlier design.

I think the Galil ACE price is fair, but I'm a first gen galil guy for several reasons I won't go into now -- but aesthetics is definitely one of them .  Also, the price in dollars hasn't really changed since the 1980s...  In 1983, the price of a Galil was $1500, so it's most definitely gotten cheaper once accounting for inflation...  https://www.scribd.com/doc/237685621/Combat-Handguns-June-83-The-Galil-Best-Assault-Rifle-in-the-World
Per this calculator: http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
$1500 in 1983 is $3565 today...

My point was that for 7.62x39, you have proven reliability in several systems at or below the Bren pricepoint that are also platforms that are more modern and better assembled than your standard AK (all this assuming the Bren was actually offered in 7.62x39 at the same pricepoint as 5.56).  For me, a gun of known quality with proven reliability makes my decision much easier than "moderized", "military issued" whatever gun of the moment...  If you don't need caliber interchangeability and other military dictated and specific design specs, then why not stick w/ a proven weapon system that meets all of my personal needs?

[S11033]

Wow, I'm new to Czech firearms and hadn't realized how much of a blunder the Bren 805 was. What is the current opinion of it? Has the opinion changed since it came to market?

[armoredman]

Well, those of us who have them are very fond of them. I had a vz-58 and I have a BREN 805. It's heavier and longer, but very accurate and dead on reliable with everything I feed it, including cast handloads.





https://youtu.be/s2q16GyBOuI

https://youtu.be/efAZT5YmC6k

I think the Czech Army realized there were some improvements they wanted on the rifle which is how the BREN 2 came about. I want a BREN 2 in 308 or 6.5 Grendel, but would be happy with 5.56mm. In the meantime, my BREN 805 is an awesome rifle.