Author Topic: First full size CZ??  (Read 1792 times)

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Offline RoscoeD

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First full size CZ??
« on: February 05, 2018, 01:15:53 AM »
I have a PCR at CGW getting a Defensive Carry Package done (and night sights and a bushing).  Anyway, I had the opportunity to fondle a CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow Target II in my LGS and was blown away by the feel and the custom trigger.  Bad new I can't afford what they're asking'.  That said, the CZ 75 full size is legendary so I'd like to add one to my stable.  For carry I'm a fan of DA/SA (with decocker), but for fun I think I prefer SA (love my 1911s).

Questions
  • Why do so many CZ DA/SA models NOT come with a decocker; seems more natural to me to have dockers on DA/SA and manual safeties on SA
  • What's different between the Basic CZ75 and the SP-01; hard to tell from the web site
  • What would folks recommend for a best "bang for the buck" range gun.  Would I be happy with a CZ 75 B SA?  I can get this one with a military discount for a pretty good price... 
  • What are folks thoughts on the convertible (Omega) trigger system?  As an engineer I usually find thatches type of feature usually has downsides somewhere (feel?)
Lot's of questions...I'm months away from having the cash so I have a lot of decision stress time ahead of me :)
Roscoe
USAF (retired)
Rock Chalk Jayhawk!!
Sig M11-A1 [RX] | P320C RX | P226 SAO RX Legion
Colt 1911 | Springfield RO Compact 1911 | DW Vigil
CZ 75 D PCR | Shadow 2 | SP-01 Tactical
Springfield M1 Garand | Winchester 1894 Carbine | S&W M&P15 Sport II | WASR AK-47

Offline KME

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Re: First full size CZ??
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2018, 02:35:19 AM »
The most obvious difference between the 75B and the SP-01 is the full-length dust cover and extended beavertail. If you like the 75B form factor and you want a decocker you should look at the 75 BD. I find my BD is more balanced in my hands than my SP-01.

Offline RoscoeD

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Re: First full size CZ??
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2018, 08:04:10 AM »
Not sure how I missed that one...but as I stated originally, I'm leaning toward the SA model for the range.  The SP-01 was the DA/SA model that I was considering (very highly rated on many "Top 10" lists)
Roscoe
USAF (retired)
Rock Chalk Jayhawk!!
Sig M11-A1 [RX] | P320C RX | P226 SAO RX Legion
Colt 1911 | Springfield RO Compact 1911 | DW Vigil
CZ 75 D PCR | Shadow 2 | SP-01 Tactical
Springfield M1 Garand | Winchester 1894 Carbine | S&W M&P15 Sport II | WASR AK-47

Offline newageroman

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Re: First full size CZ??
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2018, 11:06:33 AM »
Best bang for my buck was a $300 Buds special and then another $250 worth of CGW parts. Here is the build thread in case you are interested.
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=92370.0
Ricky Ace Range Review: https://rumble.com/c/c-1388111
75B-BullShadow SAO (Limited Optics)
SP-01-SAO-comped (OpenMajor)
97E SAO, 97B, SAR copies
..others..

Offline jDeLaBay

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Re: First full size CZ??
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2018, 11:16:15 AM »
Just so you know, DA/SA can easily be converted to SAO, if you don't find a SAO. Doesn't cost very much either.

Offline newageroman

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Re: First full size CZ??
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2018, 03:19:46 PM »
^^^ what he said^^^
The SAO conversion is not too hard and is a little cheaper than working up a DA/SA gun. I'm sill loving mine.
 
I will say that I do prefer the deeper undercut and beavertail of the shadow, compared to the stock B model, but it wouldn't press me to spend another $$$ just for those features.

Good luck!
Ricky Ace Range Review: https://rumble.com/c/c-1388111
75B-BullShadow SAO (Limited Optics)
SP-01-SAO-comped (OpenMajor)
97E SAO, 97B, SAR copies
..others..

Offline Sunkist

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Re: First full size CZ??
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2018, 05:37:32 PM »
I started my CZ addiction when I was searching for a SAO 40 8 yrs ago. I got the 75B SA in .40 and haven't looked back. Since I'm a tinkerer I soon got CGW's SRT pkg with the extended FP all the springs, trigger pin, FO front sight and VZ grips and CZC's comp hammer along with CGW's adjustable sear. After everything was nice and broke in I found my trigger was so light I was having unintended second shots. So, I reverse engineered and went back to a stiffer trigger return spring and reinstalled the factory hammer which was made easier since I still had the adj. sear in place. It is now at about a 3.75 lb. trigger and life is good.

Last year I found a Matte Stainless 75B DA/SA in 9mm at the LGS. It has that sweet upswept beaver-tail so I made it a SAO too. The difference from the .40 is that I went with the factory hammer from the start so I didn't have to mess with the sear. The trigger is right at 4 lbs with the extended FP and 13 lb mainspring and CGW trigger spring and factory SAO trigger. It wears OEM height FO front sight from CGW and factory rear sight.
"In the Land of the Blind the One-Eyed Man is King."

The Guardian

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Re: First full size CZ??
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2018, 06:11:08 PM »
    Questions
    • Why do so many CZ DA/SA models NOT come with a decocker; seems more natural to me to have dockers on DA/SA and manual safeties on SA
    • What's different between the Basic CZ75 and the SP-01; hard to tell from the web site
    • What would folks recommend for a best "bang for the buck" range gun.  Would I be happy with a CZ 75 B SA?  I can get this one with a military discount for a pretty good price... 
    • What are folks thoughts on the convertible (Omega) trigger system?  As an engineer I usually find thatches type of feature usually has downsides somewhere (feel?)

    Answers:
    1. Decockers were more an afterthought for CZ after their base model came in Safety version only......there have been a few comprehensive threads on the forum about Safety vs Decocker, really just comes down to preference and what CZ puts out to meet one's needs
    2. Difference is the SP01 has a full dust cover w/rail, upswept beaver tail, full length guide rod and ambi-decocker
    3. Best "bang for the buck" is any version with all new springs; hammer/main, trigger return, and recoil......in that order.  An extended firing pin and lighter firing pin spring will allow even a lower weight hammer/main spring to used.
    4. Having worked on a lot of CZ's, the Omega trigger is better out of the box....but the Original configuration trigger mechanism can very easily be improved, even over the factory Omega. Though the ability to switch between decocker/safety only exists with the Omega system, probably why CZ came out with it in the first place...one gun, two choices.

    Hope these help in your decision methodology  ;) ..........[/list]
    « Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 07:48:03 PM by The Guardian »

    Offline tpelle

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    Re: First full size CZ??
    « Reply #8 on: February 07, 2018, 09:45:52 AM »
    I agree with Guardian on the decocker being more of an afterthought.  Remember, we're talking a pistol design introduced in 1975, an era 8 or ten years before semiautomatic pistols became common in police holsters.  (Most cops carried .38 Special revolvers.)

    As far back as 1847, with Colt's introduction of his first practical SA percussion revolver, manually decocking a hammer was a skill that anyone handling a firearm of any kind - handgun, shotgun, or rifle - learned and practiced as a necessary skill.  Look at the Winchester model 94 (That's "1894") lever action rifle, for example.  The cross bolt safety was an addition that was made in my lifetime.  Prior to that, when in the woods after venison or a set of antlers, the hunter levered a round into the chamber, then carefully lowered the hammer on to the live round.  Safety was between your ears, and if an accidental discharge occurred it was no big deal, because the muzzle was ALWAYS pointed in a safe direction.

    It was really only when semiautomatics began to be ISSUED to non-gunny people - cops and soldiers - that administrators began to demand decockers.

    I'm an old retired fart, and I carry a CZ 75 B every day in SA mode.  When loading, I chamber a round, then point the gun into my clearing bucket (a Home Depot bucket of sand) and CAREFULLY lower the hammer to half cock.  The clearing bucket is on the floor next to my gun safe.



    It's more of a Millennial attitude, I think, that expects the manufacturer to make a product that protects them from themselves, rather than developing the skill to make safety their own responsibility.
    « Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 10:06:18 AM by tpelle »

    Offline RoscoeD

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    Re: First full size CZ??
    « Reply #9 on: February 07, 2018, 10:10:48 PM »
    Good chance I'm as old as you (i.e. not a millennial) 8)
    Roscoe
    USAF (retired)
    Rock Chalk Jayhawk!!
    Sig M11-A1 [RX] | P320C RX | P226 SAO RX Legion
    Colt 1911 | Springfield RO Compact 1911 | DW Vigil
    CZ 75 D PCR | Shadow 2 | SP-01 Tactical
    Springfield M1 Garand | Winchester 1894 Carbine | S&W M&P15 Sport II | WASR AK-47

    Offline LukeB

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    Re: First full size CZ??
    « Reply #10 on: March 23, 2018, 12:44:01 PM »
    I went through the same decision process when I wanted a full size CZ and I decided on the SA. I wanted a gun for IDPA competitions and I figured it had the best features without the custom gun price tag. I love mine and it shoots really well (the trigger is awesome!). I put a fiber optic front sight and a black rear on it and the accuracy is incredible even at speed.

    My only issue with it is that the oversize safety interferes with my left hand grip placement. I am trying to source either an 85C LHS safety or a 75B stainless LHS safety (both tumbler designs) to replace it with. But it is not a huge issue and it is probably more of a personal thing as a lot of people love the SA safety design.

    All in all, the SA is a great gun and you won't be disappointed!

    Offline M1A4ME

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    Re: First full size CZ??
    « Reply #11 on: March 23, 2018, 02:47:17 PM »
    I have some CZ's.  Only one full size (a Pre B CZ 85) and several CZ Compacts (standard Compacts, P01, steel framed P01's) and some plastic framed CZ's (P07, couple P09's).

    All are carried cocked and locked, just like my 1911's were carried for almost 30 years.

    Doesn't matter if it's SA/DA.  When you load the chamber with a round from the magazine the hammer is back (just like your 1911) so you put the safety in the up position (just like your 1911) and carry it that way (just like your 1911) and if you need it you pull it from the holster, use your right thumb to sweep the safety down (just like your 1911) and it's ready to fire in SA, just like your 1911.)

    Now, an unmodified pistol won't have as nice a trigger as a nice 1911.  A modified pistol can have a pretty sweet trigger.  My youngest son's CZ 75 SA is at 2&1/4 lbs. after the installation of the CGW race hammer and adjustable sear.  I've done very little to the Compact I installed a CGW race hammer and sear in (not much in the way of polishing internal parts) and the trigger is about 3 to 3&1/4 lbs.

    You can even buy a spur hammer (like a full sized 1911) for the CZ 75 from CZ USA and make it that much easier to thumb cock.  I put one on one of my CZ 75 Compacts and I really like.  Like it enough I bought another one for a future project (if I ever buy another CZ 85, not a pre B, but a modern one).

    In my opinion, one of the best things about CZ handguns is the selection of factory and aftermarket parts you can get from CZ USA (factory replacement parts), CZ Custom (factory and custom/competition parts) and Cajun Gun Works (factory and custom/competition parts.)

    Good luck, with whatever pistol you buy.
    I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?