Author Topic: Any Ken Waters people?  (Read 1929 times)

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Offline firecracker6

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Any Ken Waters people?
« on: July 22, 2018, 03:25:09 PM »
I'm going to try using the Ken Waters method of checking for pressure.  I'll be using a vernier micrometer to measure case head expansion.  Does anyone have any experience with this?  I'll probably buy some Winchester defense ammo to use as a benchmark which means the cases will likely be nickel plated.  I'd rather use regular brass for my loads.  Will it matter?  I'd like to start using Starline cases at some point.  Is there a company that uses Starline cases for its ammo?  Is there a brand whose cases are similar?

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Any Ken Waters people?
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2018, 12:22:18 AM »
I'll probably buy some Winchester defense ammo to use as a benchmark which means the cases will likely be nickel plated.  I'd rather use regular brass for my loads.  Will it matter?

Yes, it will matter.  Waters would buy factory ammo, break some down, deprime, then reprime and load his handloads in the factory new brass, with very similar bullet, and very similar powder, and use a chronograph to check velocity, looking to get a similar velocity at the same case head expansion, assuming that meant similar pressure.

If you use different cases, it's meaningless.  If you use the same cases, but the "benchmark" was shot with factory new, and your reloads with cases that have already been fired once and resized, it matters.  If you didn't guess the factory powder closely enough and get a powder of a significantly different burn rate, it matters.  If the factory ammo was .355 124gr JHP and your loads are .356 coated lead, it matters.  Or bullets of a different weight, it matters.  There are many differences that can matter. 

THEN there's the question of what it accomplishes.  It's not going to protect you from anything.  Yes, people following safe loading practices occasionally manage to find their way into over-pressure loads anyway, but the causes of those over-pressure rounds aren't things this Waters technique would protect you from.  Published LOAD DATA protects you from accidentally going higher and higher until suddenly you're in dangerous territory without knowing it.  Just follow load data. 

It could be an interesting exercise for the sake of the exercise, but it's not going to be useful.  It's duplicating a protection provided to you already by published load data, and not as reliably.  :)

Offline jameslovesjammie

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Re: Any Ken Waters people?
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2018, 09:28:33 AM »
Quote
Any Ken Waters people?


Yup.





Oh, and what ID said.

Offline CPTKILLER

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Re: Any Ken Waters people?
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2018, 11:01:05 AM »
I always respected his info on reloading.

Offline Creeker

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Re: Any Ken Waters people?
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2018, 08:39:54 PM »
Ken was one of the good guys.
Joshua 1:9

Offline firecracker6

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Re: Any Ken Waters people?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2018, 11:47:59 AM »
I probably should have identified my intentions.  I never intended to not use published data --though I might use a different case.  Often, I will use a start load that shows signs of high pressure.  My goal to to discover whether or not those pressure signs are false.  In this instance it's Hornady's start load of silhouette with a 230 gr. XTP in 45 ACP.  I've had similar experiences with various powders in 9mm, 380 acp and especially 38 super auto. 

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Any Ken Waters people?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2018, 02:32:25 PM »
Yeah, you'd have been better off telling us why you wanted to do this.   Reading pressure signs with pistols is like reading tea leaves.   I would be exceedingly curious to see pictures of your pressure signs.

I'd also be curious as to what you're trying to accomplish with Silhouette and a 230 grain bullet.  .45 is a low pressure cartridge well-suited to the fastest of pistol/shotgun powders.  I don't know what you'd be trying to accomolish with Silhouette.

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Any Ken Waters people?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2018, 02:52:38 PM »
Seriously, as best forum practice for your benefit, you should probably start with the root problem.  You'd like have been better served by a thread titled ".45 ACP Pressure Issues??" and then showed us pics of the pressure signs in the first post.

From this:

Often, I will use a start load that shows signs of high pressure....

I've had similar experiences with various powders in 9mm, 380 acp and especially 38 super auto. 

Fram that I can tell you that you are either doing something really wrong, OR (more likely) you're reading some normal, expected deformation of primers as primer flow.

Offline firecracker6

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Re: Any Ken Waters people?
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2018, 06:41:28 PM »
Your help is appreciated.  I've been reloading a while but just when I think I've made every mistake there is I manage to find a new one; error is certainly a possibility.   I'm pretty sure I haven't made a mistake however as I've had no trouble with the other powders I loaded.  I'm inclined to go with your latter explanation but I'd like to try experimenting with Mr. Waters's method.  I was hoping there might be someone who's had some experience with it.