To Lube or Not to Lube with Carbide Dies

[Wobbly]

For those who wet tumble it is not uncommon to get the cases sticking on the drop tube of the powder measure. I asked what's up with that in a very popular Dillon reloading group and found out it was not uncommon and lubing the inside of the case mouth helped resolve the issue. If you don't wet tumble you will likely never see this issue.

I don't wet tumble and get this issue all the time. I just touch the Dillon powder-through Expander with a very, very small dab of lube like you said. It has been far less frequent with the spray, probably because, as you pointed out, that some small amount of lube is inside the case mouth.

 

[ReloaderFred]

Squeaky clean brass will stick to a steel expander die and result in galling, or depositing brass, on the steel expander stem.  I've encountered this with new Starline brass, since they clean their brass in a detergent solution as the last step of the manufacturing process, which leaves no "lubrication" on the inside of the case.  Fired brass will have residue from the previous firing, which will act as a lubrication. 

I've pulled new Starline .38 Special brass in half on the expander, leaving the top half stuck solidly in place.  It was necessary to use a small file and but a groove lengthwise in the brass so it could be peeled off the expander without damaging it.  I've found that tumbling new brass (or brass that has been SS pin cleaned) will help in this regard, but a light spritz of lube will also alleviate the problem.  I've got both halves of the last case I had to remove from an expander sitting on the shelf above my bench, just as a reminder.

As far as using lube on brass intended for a carbide sizing die, I sometimes do spray it in a gallon bag with a couple of sprays, and then knead it around inside the bag to spread the lube.  This is done on .44 Magnum and .45 Colt brass on a regular basis, and when doing a large run of 9x19 brass, since it makes it so much easier to size.  My shoulder isn't as young as it used to be, and I often load in batches of 1,000 rounds, so anything that will make it easier is a plus.  Tumbling in clean ground corn cob for about 20 minutes or so takes the small amount of lube off the brass, and if you use 20/40 grade corn cob, it doesn't stick in the flash holes.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[tdogg]

What do you use to get the lube of the inside of the cases where it can foul the powder and cause an actual problem?

ID,

I don't worry about it contaminating the powder it primer as I use a lube that won't.

Lee and hornady lubes won't contaminate the powder and I'm sure there are others.

I used to just lube a handful of cases per batch and just grab one every so often to keep things running smooth.   Now that I have a case feeder I lightly lube all the cases on a towel then I tumble them in the towel to mix/spread the lube.

The thing I noticed most about lubing pistol cases was the reduction in variability in the oal (especially after I started wet tumbling).   I'm not sure if it is a press deflection thing or if the lube helps the brass resize more consistently?    I was also having the expander stick problem too prior to using lube.

I sometimes tumble the finished cartridges in walnut media to remove the case lube if I was over zealous in lube application.  I don't need it building up in the chamber.

Cheers,
Toby

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[IDescribe]

My comment was tongue in cheek.  I was attempting to point out that if someone was using so much lube that it was gunking up the gun, then it would also be contaminating powder. 

[lewmed]

 I had a 06 FFL in the 70's and 80's and reloaded 1,000,000's of rounds for local LE agencies and have wore out many sets of Star and Dillon dies.  My reloading machines and dies lasted many times longer when case lube was used. Keep in mind a little case lube goes a long way if I'm reloading a 1,000 rounds I'll lube about 200 cases and drop a few in my case feeder as I'm reloading.  I have also found for the cartridges I reload the most 38 super, 9mm, 38 spl and 45 acp  Lee dies give you the best bang for your buck.

[steerclr]

I use a Lee single press (well actually two of them in tandem) and Lee carbide dies.  I have never used lube on straight wall pistol cases and I have never had a problem.  This includes thousands of 45acp, 9mm, 38/357 and various others.  Not saying it is the correct way to do it, but from experience (years) it has never been a problem for me.  Just sharing.

Happy New Year to all!

[George16]

If you dry tumble, the dust from the tumbling media ( corn cob or crushed walnut) will act as a dry graphite lubricant on the dies.

I don?t lube pistol rounds since I use crushed walnut shells in cleaning my brass.

If you do decide to use lube, just get a 1 gallon ziploc bag, spray the inside of it sparingly then put the brass and shake/roll the brass inside the ziploc bag. Doing it this way will only allow the lubricant to adhere to the external surface of the brass and not the inside of that case or primer hole. Don?t spray too much. 1-2 short burst of lube will be adequate.

This is what I had been doing when I reload rifle rounds. It?s a lot quicker than rolling them on a case pad or putting them on a flat pan and spray them over.

[oakengineer]

No you are not. There is no need to lube 9mm brass.

Less wear and tear on the brass and die.
Less force needed to resize, thus less force applied (unevenly) to shellplate -- so more consistent seating and less runout.

AND in MY case, prior to my using lube, during a particularly long reloading session when I suppose the carbide ring was heating up and expanding a hair, I had a case gall inside a Redding sizing die and get torn out of the shellplate.  If you have that happen to you once, you won't use carbide dies without lube again. 

Came here to say basically this.  I spray just a bit of the hornady stuff on the whole box of 9mm cases and it makes loading way more smooth and consistent.  Not to mention it keeps the dies smoother longer.

[M1A4ME]

I've never lubed pistol cases meant to be resized with carbide sizing dies.

I have/had a set of Lee 9MM dies that was extremely hard to resize brass with (yes, carbide sizing die).  I finally gave up on it and bought an RCBS 9MM die set with carbide sizing die and it works much smoother/better for me and the ammo still works in my pistols.

I do use the crushed walnut shell media in the vibratory cleaners/polishers.  I do, sometimes, put nufinish car wax in one of them.

The only cases I lube are the rifle cases resized with conventional/steel dies.

If I run some brass through the steel pin/water/lemishine/rock tumbler cleaning set up I then run the brass through the vibratory cleaner to dry them off and that would put some of the dust back on/in the brass.

I haven't, yet, worn out a carbide resizing die for lack of lube.  Neither have I worn out a crimping die (steel surface) while removing the bell from the case mouths or heavy crimping on the magnum revolver cases.  That's just a small corner/surface area but it's working the brass in that area as much or more than the resizing die as far as making a diameter change.

I paid extra for the carbide dies so I wouldn't have to lube the cases.

So far, I've not had a stuck handgun or rifle case (the rifle cases do get lubed) and I hope I never do.

[toteone]

I wet tumble my 9mm cases for about 20 mins.  Next I sort the ones I want to load and lay them on a small micro fiber towel with case openings facing all one direction.  Using Dillon case lube, I lightly spritz (1/2 squirt) onto about 100 cases at an angle AWAY from the case mouths.  I then roll them on towel for a minute, let dry for 30.
Using Dillon 9mm carbide dies if I feel a slight tug on up stroke I usually take my micro fiber towel and grab the end of the powder drop tube and wipe in circular motion without pushing up.
This usually takes care of ANY sticking at all for the next 100 cases or so.

Never had any powder sticking in case mouth when I check the powder drops every 50 or so.  I have not used 1/10 of a bottle of lube and have loaded around 4000 9mm rounds.

[M1A4ME]

May be some difference (??) between a single stage press vs. a progressive press, too.  On one you just resize the case.  On the other you have multiple operations going on every time you push the handle down.

[IDescribe]

May be some difference (??) between a single stage press vs. a progressive press, too.  On one you just resize the case.  On the other you have multiple operations going on every time you push the handle down.

The case that galled into my sizing die was  WAY into that reloading session, hundreds in, and with a case feeder, those were going fast.  My die was heating up.  There is no doubt that friction and thermal expansion led to my incident.  I felt and heard the sticking the last few strokes, kept going, trying to figure out what it was, and POP... end of reloading session.

The difference in resistance with case lube (because of reduced friction) is dramatic.