Slovak brake vs Phantom flash hider

[TJNewton]

I may have addressed this before, but an FYI regarding choice of muzzle devices.  I've been using the CNC Warrior Phantom brake for a while and thought I'd try the Slovak brake that I'd put in storage.  Overall, I prefer a flash hider as it's quieter (relatively) and of course hides the flash.  I was at the range today and started with the Phantom flash hider, getting about 4-5" groups at 100 yards.  I put on the Slovak brake and it cut my groups in half.  One group of five had a three-leaf clover with a couple of stragglers widening things up.  At 50 yards clover leaves were regular. 

It might be the brake improving things, or I just might need to work on recoil mitigating with the Phantom.  Either way, big difference.

[RSR]

Were muzzle device wobbles the same between the two, due to either detent cutout or threading?

[TJNewton]

Were muzzle device wobbles the same between the two, due to either detent cutout or threading?

Yes, both have the same wobble as they both bottom out, then have to be backed off about a quarter of a turn to hit the detent notch for correct indexing.  I haven't yet tried your suggestion of sealing tape.  That's next on the list.

I was thinking that the groups narrowed with the Slovak brake as it mitigates muzzle rise better than the Phantom.  Since tight groups are attained through consistency, especially at a slow rate of fire, I theoretically should be able to do just as well with the Phantom flash hider.  Interestingly, although the group size of each muzzle device was different, the center points were the same.  I think that since there's more muzzle rise with the Phantom, my recoil control needs more work -- I'm probably absorbing the impulse differently with each shot, causing the groups to spread. The Slovak brake kicks less, so it's easier to be more consistent.  I'll likely go back to the Phantom, as for defensive purposes a flash hider seems to be more important, and 4-5" group at a 100 yards is nearing the potential of the rifle and the ammo -- plus there seems to be good possibilities for improvement. 

[MeatAxe]

Were muzzle device wobbles the same between the two, due to either detent cutout or threading?

Yes, both have the same wobble as they both bottom out, then have to be backed off about a quarter of a turn to hit the detent notch for correct indexing.  I haven't yet tried your suggestion of sealing tape.  That's next on the list.

I was thinking that the groups narrowed with the Slovak brake as it mitigates muzzle rise better than the Phantom.  Since tight groups are attained through consistency, especially at a slow rate of fire, I theoretically should be able to do just as well with the Phantom flash hider.  Interestingly, although the group size of each muzzle device was different, the center points were the same.  I think that since there's more muzzle rise with the Phantom, my recoil control needs more work -- I'm probably absorbing the impulse differently with each shot, causing the groups to spread. The Slovak brake kicks less, so it's easier to be more consistent.  I'll likely go back to the Phantom, as for defensive purposes a flash hider seems to be more important, and 4-5" group at a 100 yards is nearing the potential of the rifle and the ammo -- plus there seems to be good possibilities for improvement.

You might check out Manticore Arms' Night Brake and Eclipse Flash Hider. They're both quite a bit lighter than the Slovak brake, though you'd need an adaptor since neither are threaded to 14x1RH. Even with the adaptor, they're still lighter than the Slovak brake. They work great on my AKs and VZs for recoil / flash suppression as well as accuracy.

[RSR]

Was this from prone/bench or standing?  And rate of fire slow?

To the point -- muzzle devices can affect barrel harmonics, but typically don't see such a major shift w/o some repeatability issue w/ shooter or muzzle device installation.

Faster shooting, brakes/comps can speed up practical accuracy over flash hiders.

[TJNewton]

Was this from prone/bench or standing?  And rate of fire slow?

To the point -- muzzle devices can affect barrel harmonics, but typically don't see such a major shift w/o some repeatability issue w/ shooter or muzzle device installation.

Faster shooting, brakes/comps can speed up practical accuracy over flash hiders.

This was from a bench, sometimes with a rest, sometimes sitting supported on elbows.  Rate of fire was about once every 5-10 seconds as I was concentrating on natural point of aim and breath control.  I think groups will improve with the Phantom if I concentrate on making impulse mitigation more consistent.  Since the center point of the groups between the two devices were the same, I suspect that since the Phantom allows more recoil/rise, and I'm just letting that muzzle rise a little differently with each shot.  That's easier to control that with the Slovak.  Practice, practice, practice.

As far as the Manticore Arms devices, how well does the brake suppress flash, and how well does the flash hider mitigate recoil and muzzle rise, especially in comparison with the Slovak and Phantom devices?

[MeatAxe]

Was this from prone/bench or standing?  And rate of fire slow?

To the point -- muzzle devices can affect barrel harmonics, but typically don't see such a major shift w/o some repeatability issue w/ shooter or muzzle device installation.

Faster shooting, brakes/comps can speed up practical accuracy over flash hiders.

As far as the Manticore Arms devices, how well does the brake suppress flash, and how well does the flash hider mitigate recoil and muzzle rise, especially in comparison with the Slovak and Phantom devices?

I have not used the Phantom, but I have both the Slovak and the Manticore Night Brake on rifles and it just felt to me like the Manticore did a better job of taming recoil and muzzle flip than the Slovak, and also weighed significantly less. You can search the web and find side by side video comparisons between the various muzzle brakes and flash hiders (Rob Ski, Mr. Guns n Gear, etc.). Also, of note is the Bulgarian Arsenal two-slot per side muzzle brake (as seen on SAM7 rifles) which does a great job of taming recoil and weighs almost nothing, but is not 922r compliant.

On pistols, I use the Manticore Eclipse which does as good a job, if not better than the four-piece CNC Warrior copy of the Bulgarian Krinkov booster, but weighs significantly less.

[RSR]

On pistols, I use the Manticore Eclipse which does as good a job, if not better than the four-piece CNC Warrior copy of the Bulgarian Krinkov booster, but weighs significantly less.

Only if you're using ammo using premium American clean-burning powder, including w/ flash suppressant. 

[RSR]

Phantom is an excellent flash hider.  Typically 3-4 prong open end are slightly better performers than closed end, but you get more of the resonant ping noise due to vibrating tines (note that the winner has internal tines/threading on prongs similar to the Phantom)....  However, in this test, the Phantom performed slightly superior to the Manticore: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/06/jeremy-s/ar-15-flash-hider-shootout/

I am not a fan of the Manticore Night Brake -- and while my experience is only video reviews -- it's primary selling point appears to be price, not necessarily overall performance.   Primarily b/c anything that throws a large to blinding amount of flash in front of my sights/optic for a self-defense gun, which is likely to be needed to be used in a self-defense scenario in low light, isn't a desirable feature. 

[MeatAxe]

Phantom is an excellent flash hider.  Typically 3-4 prong open end are slightly better performers than closed end, but you get more of the resonant ping noise due to vibrating tines (not the winner has internal tines/threading on prongs similar to the Phantom)....  However, in this test, the Phantom performed slightly superior to the Manticore: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/06/jeremy-s/ar-15-flash-hider-shootout/

I am not a fan of the Manticore Night Brake -- and while my experience is only video reviews -- it's primary selling point appears to be price, not necessarily overall performance.   Primarily b/c anything that throws a large to blinding amount of flash in front of my sights/optic for a self-defense gun, which is likely to be needed to be used in a self-defense scenario in low light, isn't a desirable feature.

Well, there are always trade offs with muzzle devices. My main criteria are effectiveness. light weight and small size and, depending on the rifle, 922r compliance. I swear a lot of muzzle brakes are effective just because they're heavy (i.e. the 4 piece Bulgarian booster / chunk).

I have tried several AK brakes for 7.62x39 -- not all, which would cost a small fortune -- and watched the videos. I haven't felt much difference between the $100 Krebs, the $50 Manticore and the $25 Bulgarian as far as recoil / muzzle flip control on the rifles. Overall, the tiny Bulgarian two slot brake is the best performance-wise.

On the pistols, recoil is negligible anyway, but muzzle flash is extreme -- singed eyebrows, etc. -- so a flash suppressor is my choice and no need for 922r compliance. Now that I have a Phantom, I can compare it to the Manticore Eclipse. I notice that the Eclipse is somewhat heavier, but the Phantom is a bit longer.

The great thing about most Com Bloc rifles and pistols is that their muzzle devices are usually quick detachable -- you can easily change from a muzzle brake to a flash hider depending on the situation, so you can carry both.

[TJNewton]

I do agree with the trade offs.  I think I'm going to stick with the Phantom as with some more practice, I think I can close those groups during relatively slow fire, 1 shot every 1-3 seconds.  For rapid fire, even though it would be inferior to the Slovak or any other brake, it would still be more than accurate enough for the situations and ranges where such a rate would be necessary, namely in self defense and 25 yards and under.  Not being blinded or not advertising position win out over slightly better accuracy.

[RSR]

Well, there are always trade offs with muzzle devices. My main criteria are effectiveness. light weight and small size and, depending on the rifle, 922r compliance. I swear a lot of muzzle brakes are effective just because they're heavy (i.e. the 4 piece Bulgarian booster / chunk).

I have tried several AK brakes for 7.62x39 -- not all, which would cost a small fortune -- and watched the videos. I haven't felt much difference between the $100 Krebs, the $50 Manticore and the $25 Bulgarian as far as recoil / muzzle flip control on the rifles. Overall, the tiny Bulgarian two slot brake is the best performance-wise.

On the pistols, recoil is negligible anyway, but muzzle flash is extreme -- singed eyebrows, etc. -- so a flash suppressor is my choice and no need for 922r compliance. Now that I have a Phantom, I can compare it to the Manticore Eclipse. I notice that the Eclipse is somewhat heavier, but the Phantom is a bit longer.

The great thing about most Com Bloc rifles and pistols is that their muzzle devices are usually quick detachable -- you can easily change from a muzzle brake to a flash hider depending on the situation, so you can carry both.

I have a 3 or 4 piece (however CNCW markets) on my Yugo M92 pistol.  Also have tried the OE device that Century sells.  3 or 4 piece is much better -- but yes, I agree and have posted here previously that I'd much rather have an extra 2-3" of barrel length and a lighter weight muzzle device than having to run the heavy CNCW brake, but it does have the best overall function insofar as flash mitigation in sight picture w/ (former) comblok ammo sources.  Which is why I find the 12.5" CSA VZ58 quite interesting, though I haven't yet purchased.

Open tine flash hiders have to be heavier in order to have the necessary structural integrity since each tine is independent.  Some of the more expensive devices have lightening cuts down the middle of the exterior of the tines that help reduce weight -- but yes, Phantom is very lightweight relative to performance.

I don't subscribe to carry both.  My recommendation would be to configure the weapon for a specific use and use it as configured always...  Dealing w/ a gun w/ wildly varying recoil impulses does detrimentally affect practical accuracy in less than ideal ways.

On my RPK w/ 20" heavy barrel, I have a PWS FSC-47 which allows for both greater accuracy (especially at high rates of fire) and decent flash mitigation (given extended barrel length).  On ARs w/ quality light profile barrels, I like the Precision Armament AFAB brake for overall performance, but it's far too heavy for use on guns w/ A2 profile barrels -- cheap on ARs, the A2 flash hider indexed to optimized recoil based on shooter's handedness is my preference.

[RSR]

*My understanding is that the reason the military went with closed-end flash hiders was to minimize hangups on brush and the reduce the ability of muzzle device to grab and hold potentially destructive to weapon materials at the muzzle -- it wasn't a function of flash suppression performance.