Author Topic: Just could not make this one a 1 gun trip - M&P 2.0 9MM and old P07 .40  (Read 2213 times)

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Offline M1A4ME

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Got the APEX trigger kit in the M&P yesterday??  Man it's easy to lose track of time/activities...

Trigger pull is down right amazing.  3&1/4 lbs. on the gauge but the number doesn't do it justice, at all.  Over travel and reset, as well as crispness, take this one to a new level.



And, the groups show me that the stock 5.5 lb. trigger pull is not the issue.  Groups didn't drastically improve when the trigger pull did drastically improve.  I either have a load development task ahead of me (cheapest and easiest route) or a different barrel at some point - if I want it to shoot like a CZ.  More on that at the end.

When I found my stash of M&P 9MM magazines they were full of 147 grain hollow points.  I haven't looked through the reloading log for details but I know in those years I was using Rainier plated 147 grain hollow points and AA#5 powder.  Primers would be either Federal or CCI (again, not sure till I dig bag several years through my log book.

I decided to shoot up the 147's today.  Nothing special about the groups.  Definately not up to par for a good shooting pistol.

The results of one magazine of 17 rounds.  Range was 10.25 yds. for all the groups.



Did have a weird/unexpected thing happen.  One the third, or fourth magazine I got two "duds" with the last two rounds in the magazine.



Very tiny dimples in the primers.

Put them back in the empty magazine and tried them again and both went BANG!  Hmmm?



You can see the dimples are slightly larger.

Next magazine I had another 1 about half way through.  Same thing.  Put it back in the magazine and it fired the second time.  A magazine or so later I ran into two more duds.  Again, second time through both fired.

I had noticed, or thought I did, that as the rounds were going off they sounded different.  Some louder than others, some feeling different.  All of the fired rounds ejected and loaded the next round, even if they were weaker than other rounds.  While I was starting to feel bad (my first go round with the M&P's had problems with failures to fire), I took into account that the ammo did seem inconsistent.  As I was picking up brass I found some that looked like I'd shot them in the blow back operated AR9 pistols/carbines.  When I got home and started cleaning it the M&P was really dirty inside.  Granules of unburned powder, black smokey residue all over the chamber area (outside) of the barrel and in the slide in that area.  I know the AA#5 was getting old when I used it but I can't say that was the reason behind this.  Powder breaking down wouldn't cause the 5 dud rounds (that fired on the second strike).

I moved on to the the last seven 115 grain FMJ Winchester 9MM ammo I had left from the 9MM carbine test firing/sighting in.  No issues wtih that ammo going bang and the group actually wasn't that bad.  Well, for 5 out of the 7.



Then I shot some of the 115 grain Precision Delta hollow points that shoot so well in my CZ 9MM pistols.  Not bad, compared to the 147's and all of them went bang the first time. Still, not a group to brad about.



Then I couldn't stand it any longer.  I reached under my shirt and pulled out the old CZ P07 in .40 S&W and shot 5 shots at a target.  I was carrying it with the Nosler 135 hollow points sitting on a compressed charge of Blue Dot.  The M&P groups could be the pistol or the load, but I'm not taking the blame.



After putting almost $600 into the M&P you watch me end up carrying a CZ anyway (not a bad thing at all, except for the $600 it costs me to once again prove I shoot my CZ's better than anything else I've got.)  Some day (maybe this time) I'll learn.






I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

holidaypf

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That P07 group is impressive.

Did the light primer strikes first appear after the new trigger?

Offline timetofly

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M1A4ME

Nice range trip.  That P-07 just gets things done like my 75B.

What was the P/N of the trigger kit you bought for your M&P M2.0?  I picked up one in 40S&W and the trigger could use a little love.

Thank you in advance

CB
All of life’s journeys begin by putting one foot in front of the other.

Offline Sulpgnir

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Thanks for the detailed report.  Nice shooting with the P-07.  I hope everything works out with the M&P.


Offline M1A4ME

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M1A4ME

Nice range trip.  That P-07 just gets things done like my 75B.

What was the P/N of the trigger kit you bought for your M&P M2.0?  I picked up one in 40S&W and the trigger could use a little love.

Thank you in advance

CB

100-154

https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Details/192597

I looked this page/chart over as it explains the results of their testing (on trigger pull) with combinations of the factory springs and the springs supplied in the kit.  I elected to stay with the factory springs for the trigger return and sear spring.  I only replaced the striker block spring.   https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Document/451

If I were to buy another M&P (don't plan to as it's not nearly as perfect a carry gun as the P07, the P01 or even the CZ75 Compact I have for carry guns these days) I'd definately buy another one.  The difference on my pistol was just unbelievable - not just trigger pull weight but reset/travel distance and how the reset point is the "wall" for rearward trigger movement.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline M1A4ME

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That P07 group is impressive.

Did the light primer strikes first appear after the new trigger?

Yes, light strikes on some old 147 grain ammo that had been in the old S&W magazines for around 6 years or so out in the garage.  Not saying 6 years in the garage is too long, just saying it's a load the old M&P shot better than most (in my experience the M&Ps - and I own 3 of the full sized M&Ps now - just don't shoot with my CZ's) of the others I'd tried.

People say, "Hey, my pistol shoots these real good.  Nice groups."  Then they get a new pistol that really shoots good groups and it opens up their eyes to what good groups really are. 

It's why, sometimes, I pull a CZ out when I've been shooting other pistols and prove to myself if I'm having an off day or if it's the pistol, or the loads.

The hollow points that the P07 shot that nice group with shoot well in the Tactical Sport (but so far not as well as the P07) and my new CZ75B .40 S&W.  The P09 shoots them okay, but again, the P07 shines with them.  I like having a load that shoots well in multiple guns.

The 115 grain hollow points that I shot in the M&P shoot well in my P09, P01 and CZ75 Compact.  They shoot really nice groups in my youngest sons CZ75 SA and my wife's CZ75 Compact.  They don't help the M&P shoot similar groups.  The M&P may shoot a different load much better.  I'll spend some time looking for one as I really like the feel of the pistol in my hand and the trigger and I've got extra magazines for it.  And, while it shouldn't matter at all, I think it's a pretty pistol.  I've said it before, but the color, the shape of the slide and the ambidextrous safeties really appeal to me.  But the P09 and P01 win out over it on group size.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline timetofly

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M1A4ME

Nice range trip.  That P-07 just gets things done like my 75B.

What was the P/N of the trigger kit you bought for your M&P M2.0?  I picked up one in 40S&W and the trigger could use a little love.

Thank you in advance

CB

100-154

https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Details/192597

I looked this page/chart over as it explains the results of their testing (on trigger pull) with combinations of the factory springs and the springs supplied in the kit.  I elected to stay with the factory springs for the trigger return and sear spring.  I only replaced the striker block spring.   https://store.apextactical.com/WebDirect/Products/Document/451

If I were to buy another M&P (don't plan to as it's not nearly as perfect a carry gun as the P07, the P01 or even the CZ75 Compact I have for carry guns these days) I'd definately buy another one.  The difference on my pistol was just unbelievable - not just trigger pull weight but reset/travel distance and how the reset point is the "wall" for rearward trigger movement.

Wow!  Thank you for the great information.  Looks like I know where my slush fund is going.
All of life’s journeys begin by putting one foot in front of the other.

Offline M1A4ME

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The only (there's always one) issue I had putting stuff back in was that trigger pin to the trigger bar. 

The trigger comes with the pin partly installed.  You just have to use the original trigger bar.  The have disassembly and installation video links on their website that help a lot.  What I did wrong was I couldn't see down into the trigger bar pocket in the trigger.  I thought I had the trigger bar and the pin lined up and was using the vise to push the pin in farther.  Then I pulled on the trigger bar and it came out of the trigger.  When I looked I could see the pin was part of the way into the pocket - but not into the pin hole of the trigger bar.  I had to drive the pin back to where it was flush with the inside of the trigger in the pocket and start over with the vise pushing the pin into place.  That time I leaned farther over the vise and used a light to help me make sure I had the trigger bar actually in the right spot for the pin to connect it to the trigger.

Everything else went with minimal effort.

Well, putting the rail sections back in the frame went like this....line it up, looks like it's lined up, push them into place, they won't go, pull'em out, line'em up, push it won't go, repeat, repeat, all of the sudden, pop! and the front one is in place.  Same for the back one.  About the time you're ready to get aggravated it pops into place so you can install the pin to lock it into place.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?