Author Topic: Unexpectedly bought something from a gunshow...  (Read 2469 times)

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Offline OldGringo

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Unexpectedly bought something from a gunshow...
« on: July 07, 2019, 09:52:20 PM »
I typically go to Gunshows just to buy Ballistol and other cleaning supplies or to get hands on firearms that I've never seen in person. I find that the prices of many of the sellers tend to be WAY over MSRP. Then you're supposed to haggle and they cut you a deal which is, of course, MSRP.

This time however, there was a vendor (a gunshop) that was motivated to sell. They had very decent prices on some new and used guns and (surprise!) people were actually buying instead of just looking.

This one caught my eye for $499 and I wasn't the only one.



Needless to say I bought it. I've never bought a firearm on impulse before; however, had I waited a few minutes later it would have been gone.



It looks better in real life than in the photo. It looks and feels almost brand new. Based on the barrel, slide, frame, magazine, and magwell wear I'd say about 500 rounds max.



This one shows the condition of the anodizing a bit better.



The previous owner changed out the grips to some BBQ gun cocoblolo wood grips which are nice but not  my style. The original style trigger return spring is still in the gun so if I could find some good condition original black plastic grips they would fit. In the meantime I've settled on Hogue G10 black checkered which are like the 226 Legion grips except black and look similar to the originals.



The frame and slide and barrel are German. Based on the marks it was proofed in Kiel in 1992.

I never thought to really own a P226 since I think that new SIGs are overpriced for what they are. Based on how those pistols are made,a  P226 should be selling for the same price as a Beretta 92 or a CZ 75 (which are similar in cost) yet the SIGs cost considerably more.

However, I could not pass up the chance to own an original West German production in cherry condition for that price.

I took it to the range today and it ran flawlessly with the 2 original mags.

In addition to the grips I've got a SIG spring and grip screw kit and some Mec-Gar 18 rounders on the way. I'm not going to wear out the orignals.

The double action is smooth but heavy (the Germans installed 24lb main springs from the factory). The single action is very nice. I'm not going to mess with the trigger since this is a range gun that I don't plan on holstering much.

In fact, I'm not really going to change much of anything about the pistol just shoot it every once in a while.

Offline DOC 1500

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Re: Unexpectedly bought something from a gunshow...
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2019, 10:36:23 PM »
Wow , stick that in the holster and carry it. Nice pistola
JOHN 3:16
2 COR.5:17
A Lie is a Lie even if everybody believes it ,
The Truth is the Truth even if nobody believes it !!!

Offline GBUS

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Re: Unexpectedly bought something from a gunshow...
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2019, 12:18:47 AM »
Very nice score, congrats. I picked up an 89 manufactured WG P226 new in 91 for $650 so as I see it you did good at $500.
That gun is an outstanding piece and built at a time when they were doing it right.
Good idea keeping those 2 original zipper back mags out of harms way, they are still sought after and bring a premium over the newer magazines.
Enjoy your new old Sig.

holidaypf

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Re: Unexpectedly bought something from a gunshow...
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2019, 09:08:31 AM »
That's the best gun show buy I've heard of in a long time. Congrats!

Offline DOC 1500

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Re: Unexpectedly bought something from a gunshow...
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2019, 12:32:59 PM »
Being at the right place at the right time fantastic. Good luck with it.
JOHN 3:16
2 COR.5:17
A Lie is a Lie even if everybody believes it ,
The Truth is the Truth even if nobody believes it !!!

Offline Backwoods

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Re: Unexpectedly bought something from a gunshow...
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2019, 03:55:15 PM »
NICE!!!

Offline recoilguy

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Re: Unexpectedly bought something from a gunshow...
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2019, 05:16:57 PM »
That's why I go to gun shows.....I get to see a bunch of guns and talk to gun guys.

And

Every so often an banging deal like the one you found!! Nicely played

RCG
Its easy being a communist in a free country
What's hard is to be free in a communist country

Offline OldGringo

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Re: Unexpectedly bought something from a gunshow...
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2019, 06:27:30 PM »
Yeah, I've been to this gunshow on previous occasions and I've encountered this vendor (a gunshop) and their interesting wares and decent prices before.

A few months ago, the same vendor had a used D-Technik (before they started calling themselves CSA) vz58 Sporter unmodified single-stack with an original Czech CHF chrome-lined miliary barrel with barrel cap pinned and welded on and the skeletonized thumb hole stock. They were asking less than $600 (around $575) if I remember correctly.

It looked like it had hardly been fired. I based that on the fact that the glossy black painted finish (not the most robust) was pristine on receiver and bolt carrier rails and the barrel looked cherry.

Of course, I already own a CSA vz 58 which I've pimped out, and it would cost money to get a proper gunsmith to thread and pin a muzzle device (original military barrels being less than 16 inches) in addition to opening up the magwell for double stack and then I'd have to buy separate pistol grips and buttstock.  So I didn't buy it.

I kind of regret that now, but it's the reason why I wanted to check to see if those same guys would be at the gunshow this month with something good. And, as seen above, they were.

Offline v35

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Re: Unexpectedly bought something from a gunshow...
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2019, 10:36:41 PM »
You didn't buy it... you stole it!

Makes me wonder if the seller knew what he was selling. I know because I put bids in on that exact same gun on GB not once but several times. In one case I bid more than twice as much as you paid... AND LOST.

The only difference was they were nickel plated and had night sights but who cares, they'd be dead by now anyway.

Those grips are classy. I'd keep them just the way they are.

Offline Discus420

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Re: Unexpectedly bought something from a gunshow...
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2019, 04:44:56 PM »
Beautiful West German production the new one's are crappy IMHO  but this is a real deal for the price

Offline OldGringo

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Re: Unexpectedly bought something from a gunshow...
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2019, 12:45:20 AM »
I pretty sure they knew what they were selling; they're a long established gunshop (not even a pawnshop) they just had a lot to sell. I can just imagine what they must have paid them for it. Maybe they gave a crap price to someone looking to "upgrade" to a P226 Legion which would grant him access to that amazing buyers club ;)

Having shot the pistol, taken it down, inspected the internals, and cleaned it I have a few choice observations about SIGs (the 220 family of pistols anyway). So forgive my long post...


The big issue with hard-core SIG owners that one often hears is that the German guns with the stamped and welded slides are better than those currently produced in Exeter NH.

Up until recently I thought this was selection bias. After all, any lemon West German SIG would have mostly been taken care of long ago under warranty. I also considered the tendency of people to overvalue what is no longer available.

However, the recent recalls on some of their new products as well as issues that I've personally witnessed new SIG owners encountering with new pistols (the P220 family included) leads me to doubt my earlier thoughts.

Now there is nothing inherently better about the stamped carbon steel slides over milled stainless. In fact the milled stainless design is less prone to corrosion and has a superior extractor. In fact, if the original Swiss Neuhausen designers of the P220 in the late 1960s had free reign, they would have probably preferred to mill the slide.

Of course, in an era before CNC this would have been very costly and time consuming which is something that the Swiss government definitely didn't want. They wanted a cheaper, lighter, double action replacement for the P210. So they developed the (then) cheaper alternative to stamp the slide, weld the muzzle cap on, and just machine the breach and firing pin assembly. Of course this had to be done with precision which (being Swiss) they did.

I've always suspected that the Swiss designers looked at the Smith & Wesson model 39 (which combined a Walther style double action fire control and decocker with a Browning action) and asked themselves "OK how can we do this cheaper and better". If you compare the 220 with the S&W 39s there are crazy amounts of machining in the frame that the SIGs don't have and don't need.

So the guns have to be precision made, as do most duty grade pistols. The design and manufacture of the 220 family is arguably the simplest of the hammer fired wonder nines of the era. Having looked at detail strip and reassembly videos they were probably the easiest pistols to work on before the Glocks.

Ever since the Glock hit the market, using what was then relatively new manufacturing processes in the firearms industry; everyone now uses the same techniques. I can't imagine that a US made SIG P226 could ever cost more to make than a US made Beretta 92. There is more machining time involved on the Beretta. But I can buy a new 92 for less than $600 that's not even close for a new 226.

So why does a SIG cost so much more than a Beretta? Why did SIGs and Berettas cost about the same in the 80s yet now there is such a discrepancy? Honestly you don't really hear that Berettas made in the US are inferior to those made in Gardone Italy.

So what's happened? I suspect marketing and management decisions.

I do think that the QA and QC at SIG in Exeter today is not what is was in Swizerland or Germany. Subcontracting out so many of their sub-components in different countries and in far off continents (India) doesn't make that any better.

Many people attribute this to the SIG management (Ron Cohen) who, if I'm not mistaken, was the guy who transformed Kimber from a legitimate high end 1911 semi custom builder into flashy overpriced mass produced BBQ guns that photographs well in the glossy gun mags that make low-information Bubbas drool, but is honestly no better quality (if not worse) that a Rock Island or a Ruger. All that said, I'm pretty sure Kimber is making far more money now than when they were a true custom shop.

Keep in mind SIG produces fine guns and has new and innovative designs (the P365 for example is the trendsetter for concealed carry). I just think that their new products are not well tested before being released, and that many of their legacy products are overpriced.

Having hands on with this gun makes me appreciate the original designers an manufacturers all that much more, and the current management at SIG all the less.

That's why I'm so happy about my purchase as it was about the only way that I would really get my hands on a P226. Despite my preference for CZs, there is a reason why the P226 is a deservedly legendary pisol. And if anyone reading this is a fan of pistols and  can get their hands on a nicely broken-in good condition used 226 (or any 220 family of pistols) for a good price, than by all means do so.


Offline thedude

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Re: Unexpectedly bought something from a gunshow...
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2019, 07:22:59 AM »
So why does a SIG cost so much more than a Beretta? Why did SIGs and Berettas cost about the same in the 80s yet now there is such a discrepancy? Honestly you don't really hear that Berettas made in the US are inferior to those made in Gardone Italy.

So what's happened? I suspect marketing and management decisions.

I do think that the QA and QC at SIG in Exeter today is not what is was in Swizerland or Germany. Subcontracting out so many of their sub-components in different countries and in far off continents (India) doesn't make that any better.

First off, nice find on the 226!  I agree with a lot of what you said regarding Sig quality coming out of Exeter not being up to the standards of old.  However, based on the QA and QC I have seen coming from Beretta Gallatin, TN they make the Taurus PT92 look good!  ;)

Offline OldGringo

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Re: Unexpectedly bought something from a gunshow...
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2019, 12:03:47 PM »

First off, nice find on the 226!  I agree with a lot of what you said regarding Sig quality coming out of Exeter not being up to the standards of old.  However, based on the QA and QC I have seen coming from Beretta Gallatin, TN they make the Taurus PT92 look good!  ;)

I'm not up on the most current state of Beretta's. I've always found the 92s produced in Maryland to be of no lesser quality than those from Italy.

So this is Beretta's recent factory, since relocating some of their production from MD?

Offline Claymore504

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Re: Unexpectedly bought something from a gunshow...
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2019, 01:07:27 PM »
Nice find for sure. I love a nice P226!