RAMI Red Dot options

[sybertag]

I'm looking at having one of my RAMIs milled for an RDS, but I'd like to see some options before I dive in.

I saw Vinny's post with the RMR, but something about the overhang bugs me a bit, and I'm not really willing to drop 400+ on an optic just yet.

Does anyone have some pictures (profile and down the sights would be great) they could share of a RAMI with the following:

Vortex Venom
Shield RMS or RMSc
Leupold DeltaPoint Pro

Thanks

[psion55]

Probably the Shield RMSc would be your best bet.  I don't have a photo
but I have one on my SIG P365.  It's made for the single stack 9's.  Only
.9 in wide.  No overhang at all.

[Vinny]

JMO
The Leupold DPpro is a great optic, but is awfully big for a sub-compact. Got 'em on my full-size SP-01's
If you haven't already....you might want to check out Sage Dynamics Aaron Cowan's optic durability reviews. The only optics that have passed his 'service pistol' tests are RMR and DPpro.

The Shield RMS and RMSc are pretty flimsy compared to an RMR, and they ain't cheap either. But they're small enough and low enough to fit between the stock sights on my P-01. However, I broke two trying to get enough elevation adjustment and had to return to UK. Finally had to add a 1 deg Delrin shim to get enough forward tilt to zero at 10 yards. This can be an issue on short-barreled pistols. Look at the tilt difference between your rear and front sights, Make sure whoever does the milling understands the need for forward tilt to the cut. Now that I've worked the bugs out it's OK, but it's no RMR.

However, all things considered including size, price, durability, and optic features, a Vortex Venom or Viper might be best on a RAMI. It's mount footprint is narrow enough to not need an extra plate so it will sit lower in a milled slot. I have two Venoms on my P-07 & P-09 and they've been excellent. Many thousands of rounds without an issue. I especially prefer the top-load battery on Venom and the two vertical lines on rear serve as my rear BUIS. But I would like to see an image too, if anyone has tried this.  

-Vinny

[Vinny]

P.S.  Here's the rear view of my P-07 with Venom. Notice the two vertical lines on the Venom body that serve as 'BUIS' with a tall front of correct height that Dawson can provide.  I believe the RAMI could be set up similar.


I would also like to see images from someone who has done it.

[sybertag]

Thank you both for the feedback.

Vinny, I actually just had my P07 milled for a Vortex Venom and coated by Primary Machine after seeing your P07 post and I love how it turned out. Thats what inspired me to have my RAMI done too. I might have to send off one of my PCRs as well.

I think I will go with the Vortex just because the warranty is awesome. Yea it's not as tough as the Trijicon but I'm not using my pistol as a make shift hatchet and worst case Vortex will replace it.

I'd still love to see some photos of a RAMI with a Vortex is anyone has them to share. Otherwise I might have to be the test case....

[Vinny]

Thank you both for the feedback.

Vinny, I actually just had my P07 milled for a Vortex Venom and coated by Primary Machine after seeing your P07 post and I love how it turned out. Thats what inspired me to have my RAMI done too. I might have to send off one of my PCRs as well.

I think I will go with the Vortex just because the warranty is awesome. Yea it's not as tough as the Trijicon but I'm not using my pistol as a make shift hatchet and worst case Vortex will replace it.

I'd still love to see some photos of a RAMI with a Vortex is anyone has them to share. Otherwise I might have to be the test case....

Sybertag,
HaHa, Aaron Cowan's drop and hammer tests remind me of the MAC channel submerged in mud tests too. Kinda extreme but I get it if it's going to be a Service Duty pistol.

Yes, I agree the Venom would be a good choice on the RAMI, and I do hope someone sends images. Honestly, if I didn't already have an extra RMR, I might have gone that route, but I'm certainly happy with the RMR and the superb milling and mounting CGW did.

As I mentioned, I think I'd still want to have a 1 or 2 degree forward tilt in the cut.  Primary cuts theirs even with top of slide, CZ Custom does about a 1 degree forward tilt, and CGW did my RAMI with over 2 degrees and it came out perfect allowing enough elevation adjustment to zero within SD range (10 yds).

If you're thinking of doing your PCR....here's an image of my other P-01 with the Venom. CZCustom did a nice job on this one using their multi-optic plate. If for some reason I wanted to change optics, I could order a different plate. If you look carefully, you can see the forward tilt in their cut relative to top of slide.


My other P-01 has the Shield RMS, notice the extra 1 degree shim I had to add because Primary mills level with top of slide without the tilt. It was really a hassle having to send the Shield back to UK to get fixed because the elevation adj broke. It's sorted now and finally working, but I'm not happy with the shim and flimsy set-up.


Anyhow...Carry Optics pistols are becoming better and better, and I believe in time they will become as prolific as scopes on rifles. This Forum is great for sharing info and experiences, so hopefully others can learn from my trial and errors! 

[sybertag]

Vinny, just out of curiosity could you elaborate on the angle tilt issue you ran into? I saw mention of this in your RMR/RAMI post as well.

For example, was the elevation issue only at closer (<10yd) range? or was it a problem if you zeroed out farther as well? I'm not against sending my RAMI off to Cajun by any means (in fact I just recently got a milled SP01 slide from them and it turned out great.) I was just leaning toward Primary since they include Cerakote in the price of milling and my RAMI slide is a bit beat up anyway.

Thanks

[Vinny]

Vinny, just out of curiosity could you elaborate on the angle tilt issue you ran into? I saw mention of this in your RMR/RAMI post as well.

For example, was the elevation issue only at closer (<10yd) range? or was it a problem if you zeroed out farther as well? I'm not against sending my RAMI off to Cajun by any means (in fact I just recently got a milled SP01 slide from them and it turned out great.) I was just leaning toward Primary since they include Cerakote in the price of milling and my RAMI slide is a bit beat up anyway.

Thanks

You're asking an important question, and I'll tell you at least what I understand.

I zero at 10 yards for SD and competition; figuring the shots will go slightly lower (!/2" or so) at 7 yards, and 1/2" or so higher at 15 yards. This is due to parallax because the optic sits slightly higher than the barrel c/l.   

The other issue is that on CZ's at least, the shorter the barrel, the greater the downward barrel tilt at lock-up. If you look at the difference in height between the iron rear and front sights, I think you'll get what I mean.

I also like the work that Primary does. The milling is tight to the optic so it's locked in, and the extra Cerakote is sweet, especially if your slide needs refinishing anyway. I've only experienced a problem when they milled my P-01 for the Shield RMS. As I mentioned, it's a flimsy optic and the elevation adjustment is bogus. Maybe I got a couple of bad ones, but the dot broke off when I was nearing the limit of adjustment, and there doesn't seem to be a positive stop when you reach that limit. Having to wait a month getting them fixed in UK and paying the return shipping, then having to add a 1 degree shim to get it to work was a turn-off for me.

However, on the Venom, Primary says there's enough elevation adjustment in the optic for a P-01/PCR; so maybe you'll be OK. They said their fixture indexes flat off the top of the slide so they can't tilt it anyway.
But CZCustom always tilts their cut at least 1 degree forward, And CGW tilted the cut on the RAMI over 2 degrees, so they must know something. That's why I had CZ Custom mill my 2nd P-01. I didn't want another problem. And if I had another RAMI milled, it would go to CGW.

But I am very pleased with Primary's work they did mounting Venoms on my P-07 & P-09.   

Just my 2cents