Berry's 124 Gr target bullet

[NMShooter]

I was at the local Cabelas last weekend and noticed a box of Berry's 124 grain target hollow point bullets on the shelf so I picked them up.  Have any of you seen/used these bullets? I loaded some up using AA# 7 and Unique. I got excellent results with the AA#7, Unique was less than inspiring. I was shooting them from a SP-01 tac. I think I'll try them in the TSO and see how they do. Looking at the AA#7 results 7.1, 7.3 and 7.5 grains all shot well with 7.3 coming in with the best group, SD and velocity-surprisingly. Ave velocity was 1119, and SD was 5. ES of 18, 8 shots. Working from memory I think I set OAL at 1.060. I stopped testing the Unique when I got to 5.5 grains due to the velocity approaching Berry's max of 1250. At 5.5 grains I was at 1210. AT 5.3 grains I was at 1188.     

[Wobbly]

At one time Berry plated bullets was all I shot. I did a shoot off between all the styles I had in 124gr one day and the Target HP did the worst. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't all that "bad". It's just that the RN, Conical FP, Conical FPHB did better. The RBHB did the very best.





I also found that the Target HP did not feed very well in some of my other pistols. It's fairly picky about ramp shapes.

[CzechnoWizard]

I've launched 10's of thousands of berrys bullets and several thousand of the 124gr FP specifically. I shoot steel mostly so the FP is an advantage in transferring energy to the plates.  We do mix accuracy stages into our drills and I have no problem setting the bar using the berry's.

My normal load is the hollow back flat point thick plate over 5.5gr of cfe pistol, though recently I've dialed back to 5.2gr to get the ejection distance under control. 1.060 is the magic number for oal of a flat point in cz.

As to the HP, I see no use for hp ammo on the range and am not interested in home-rolled defense ammo, but I did acquire a 1000 rounds of the target hp on a killer sale and shot them up on steel. I gained notoriety bifurcating the chipmunks that infest our backstop at 15 to 25 yard ranges, (with various pistols) so I'd say they were plenty accurate!  Shooting them thru a carbine at water jugs also showed the hollow point does improve terminal effect though weight retention is abysmal.

[CzechnoWizard]

Ok.. wasnt really looking to start an argument but here goes.

I collect up 1 gallon jugs by the hundreds and use them a fun reactive targets on my range. They are fun for kids and useful in testing or demonstrating the difference velocity and bullet construction can make. They also help newbies understand the non-corellation between big scary bores and terminal effect. Little 17hmr or 40 gr vmax at 3600fps does way more than 250 gr soft lead or 230 hardball.

Std 9mm FMJ RN shot thru water jugs tends to produce a pretty clean entry and exit. SOMEtimes the jugs will tear from hydrostatic shock.  Mostly you end up with a jug peeing on the range.

Berry's plated target hp cause the jug to rupture and often do not exit even the 1st jug. I find pieces of the bullet in the jug. I've even found "stumps" with the forward portion of the bullet missing. I concluded they are "opening" but without the benefit of a jacket to hold the nose together, they behave somewhat like a frangible.



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[Dred]

Target HP are not designed to expand like defensive HP bullets.  The point is holliw to help with aerodynamic stability.

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[DWARREN]

I lke the flat point hollow base.Yyou can run them hotter than most and still get good accuracy.
Hollow points are suppose to be more accurate due to the weight being farther back than other designs but it only works if they fit the bore well and are run at the appropriate velocity.
I imagine that you are correct about the HP opening up but no jacket to hold them together.
Have fun and be safe!

[CzechnoWizard]

I lke the flat point hollow base.Yyou can run them hotter than most and still get good accuracy.
Hollow points are suppose to be more accurate due to the weight being farther back than other designs but it only works if they fit the bore well and are run at the appropriate velocity.
I imagine that you are correct about the HP opening up but no jacket to hold them together.
Have fun and be safe!

I like them because you can run them hot or cream puff. The hollow base helps obturate the base and seal the bore, and it results in longer bearing length for a given bullet weight.  And, contrary to some, I prefer weight forward for stability.  Ever throw a javelin or spear backwards?

Bottom line - 124gr HBFP-TP = good!

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[Wobbly]

Shooting them thru a carbine at water jugs also showed the hollow point does improve terminal effect though weight retention is abysmal.

Care to clarify ?

Apologies. I read that sentence 5 times last night and could not make sense of it. Something about the last part seemed to be at odds with the first part.... grammar wise. Tonight it makes perfect sense.

PS. We don't argue here. We discuss.

[Wobbly]

I got it now. To me the 2 thoughts ran on. 1) I was really tired and read the "though" as "through". 2) The sentence needs a comma to prevent the collision.

I read it as...
"Shooting them thru a carbine at water jugs also showed the hollow point does improve terminal effect through weight retention..... is abysmal."

It should be...
"Shooting them thru a carbine at water jugs also showed the hollow point does improve terminal effect, though weight retention is abysmal."

"Thought", "Through", "Though". Didn't the Vikings cause enough trouble without infecting our language with a pile of words that contain mostly silent letters ??

[Dan_69GTX]

I thought it was the horse that caused the silent troubles.

[armoredman]

No, the dog did nothing in the night, and THAT was the strange thing...

I loaded a few thousand of the THPs years ago, and they had to be loaded obscenely short to work in any of my CZ pistols, 1.020, IIRC. Very accurate bullet, but a massive jam causer if I wasn't careful. That is the ONLY bullet that ever jammed the Scorpion, too.

[Wobbly]

I don't believe that Berry uses an ultra-fine molding setup. (But then for making plated bullets, why would you need one?) When they core a bullet to make a Hollow Base, they place a whopper of a core in the mold. And that's just fine for Hollow Base. But when you use the same diameter core to make a HP, the size is rather large. Because the core is large, then the meplat portion of the bullet gets ridiculously large. To me it's that large frontal area that upsets the feeding.

I've had the same results of poor feeding from FPRN, another bullet style with a large meplat. That's a very common bullet for 357Sig and 40S&W, but it's not common in 9mm. I once tried some very good looking jacketed 124gr FPRN from Zero. I had to get them down to 0.980" OAL to get them to feed well.

So my issues with the Berry Target HP are not specifically with Berry. My guns simply seem to have issues with any bullet with a large frontal area.

[CzechnoWizard]

I believe, if you study their website, you will find that berrys bullets are swaged, not cast. They are cold worked in closed dies starting from soft lead wire.  They are also double struck, meaning they get a second hit to size them precisely. I've had nothing but great results with their products.   The 1st time I tried a flat point profile I was surprised at how much I had to adjust the seating depth. Regular parabolic round nose 9mm can usually run all the way out to 1.169 saami spec OAL, but the flat points need to be at 1.060. That much adjustment seems extreme until you examine the bullet profile and then it makes perfect sense. I've never seen a chamber that would require 1.020" oal. If I ran into such a situation I might suspect I got ahold of a bullet intended for .38 revolver instead of 9mm pistol.

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