P10C Advanced Carry Gun Project

[davekoch]

I'm a huge CZ pistol fan (owning 9 not including this one, plus a 452 22LR rifle and Kadet slide), but I've never owned one of their polymer guns or striker fired handguns. I just got a Suppressor Ready P10C this week to correct that oversight  (10/2018 production. Happy Birthday!). $388 inc tax & shipping plus $10 transfer fee.

The intent for this gun is to use as a CCW. I've been carrying a PCR, S&W J-frame or S&W Shield depending on the wardrobe situation. The PCR being my primary and one of the smaller guns for when I have to dress with a tucked in shirt.  If all goes well with my testing, the P10C will replace the PCR as primary.

My plan is to customize this gun as an fully modern advanced carry gun, adding features that the PCR lacks. By modern features I mean:

• The CZ is striker fired for a consistent trigger pull without the need for manually activated safety or decocker.
• Polymer for lightweight (although I do like the PCR's alloy frame, the P10C is even lighter with similar dimensions).
• Light rail. Most crime does happen at night and this gun will pull double duty as my bedside gun.
• Threaded Barrel. Using a suppressor in self defense is arguable, but it is an optional capability with this gun. Options can be good to have. I don't have to use it, but can if I see the need. Plus it is nice for practice shooting on my property and dispatching any four legged critters that need to be dispatched.

Regarding the modernization and customization part of that:

• I'll be adding a Olight PL-MINI 2 Valkyrie 600 lumen weaponlight. This light will live on the gun 24/7 for carry use and bedside use.
• I'm sending the slide to Primary Machine for an optics cut and a Glock rear sight mounted in front of the optic. (Ameriglo .360 rear, Dawson .275 front, both plain black)
• The optic I'm adding is a Holosun 507C red dot. I really like the Eotech style reticle. The battery life is reputed to be excellent. Durability is reported to be good for this class of optic, on par or maybe better than the Deltapoint though not as durable as the RMR. Probably better than everything else.  Time will tell. 
• I've added a Cajun Gunworks stainless steel guide rod and 15# recoil spring
• I probably should add CGW upgraded tool steel striker pin also.

If you guys can think of any other reliability mods, please let me know.  I will not be modifying the trigger or springs for a lighter or smoother pull, but would consider any mods that improve reliability or durability.



First mags though last night, just function testing:

I shot with a CGS Kraken, a very lightweight (and quiet  ) 9mm suppressor. The first mag of 15rds Speer Lawman 147gr was one FTE after another until the last five rounds which functioned perfectly. Every mag after that functioned perfectly. Ejection was about 45 degrees to the rear, throwing them about 6-8 feet away.  I ran 115 rds through. One box of 147gr Lawman, one box of 147gr CCI Blazer brass case, and one mag of S&B 150gr.  The gun shot to point of aim with the suppressor. I didn't even have to clock it (probably dumb luck).

 My initial impressions of the gun:

So far I like it!   It fits my hand nicely. It points intuitively. The OEM sights are nice (though I'll be replacing them). The ambi mag release works perfectly no stiffness or any problems at all. I got two +2 mags. I like that. I like the big trigger guard for shooting with gloves. The trigger is outstanding. I just recently bought a S&W Performance Center Shield with their trigger job. It has a very nice trigger. Though some will disagree with me, I like the P10C's trigger better. The Shields is lighter, maybe too light for an SD gun. The P10's is the perfect weight. Yeah, the reviews are right about the gritty feel in the takeup. I don't care about that. Takeup has no effect of shooting. The break snaps cleanly and the reset is very sweet. The travel is quite a bit less than the S&W gun as well. Nice and short after the break.

The negatives: The stiff slide release. I don't use it, but yeah, that's a thing with this gun. I'll try polishing it later on, but it's not a high priority for me. The texturing is rough at the rear and I'm concerned with how it will feel against my skin while IWB. I like that CZ made it that way though. If it's a problem, I'll work around it with rubberized Talon Grips. 

 I can fall in love with this gun. My first suppressor ready gun and my first Poly CZ and my first striker fired CZ. If over long term, it works as reliably as my other CZs have, this will be a real winner and I might buy another. 

 More to come when I get my slide back from Precision Machine....





The day she came home with me. 



CGS Kraken mounted

[Joe L]

What I am thinking is that the gun was a little tight at first and loosened up after a few rounds and will be fine from now on as long as it isn't dry.  Even the slide release will smooth out.  Mine was one of the worst of the initial guns released and it has been fine after a  little use. 

If any of the roughness bothers you later, go watch Earlan357's videos on smoothing it out, and then the only other change you might consider if pull is just a little heavy is a 5# striker spring from a Glock.  I've used 4 and 4.5# springs with the CGW and stock strikers but I don't shoot any HD ammo which may have tougher primers than the Rem UMC and Atlanta Arms 115 JHP match ammo that I use.  Your list looks great to me. 

Joe

[davekoch]

Hi Joe. Thanks for the suggestions.

I was thinking the same thing about the break-in. I was actually surprised that it broke in so quickly. I read some reports around the 'net that these guns were single shots with suppressors until around 200-250 rounds through them. That was definitely not the case with mine. 

 I also did field strip mine, clean and lube it very well with Slip 2000. That's SOP with me. I won't break a gun in dry or with factory preservative unless specifically indicated by the OEM.

I'll look into the polishing videos. I don't plan on changing any springs because reliability is paramount to me, but polishing can be a good thing to that requirement.  I actually plan to detail strip it and dye the frame while the slide is out, so I can do it then.

 Thanks,
Dave

[aflevine]

FWIW ... I have the Mini 2 Valkyrie, which is a great light.  Today, Olight has a flash sale on the BALDR Pro, which I feel is superior.  Personally, went with the CGW competition striker and spring.  Holosun has great products.  Went with the green dot instead of red because it's a bit more visible in daylight.  If you carry appendix, you'll have no problem getting a holster.  I don't, so I did.  Went with a good leather one. 

[2morechains]

Cool project, let us know how it goes.   I mod’ed a P10C last year to suit my desires for an EDC/HD gun.

Jagerwerks did the slide milling for an RMR and milled the slide for Ameriglo rear sight in front of the optic.  I added the same front and rear irons, only opted for a green fiber optic on my front sight.  I like how low the RMR sits, and the dot is right above the front sight post pretty much co-witnessed. 

Trigger I opted for the HBi trigger shoe.  I did play around with the different striker spring weights, but ultimately reverted back to stock spring after doing some polishing to remove the grit in the pull/break. 6-7K rnds later my trigger pull gauges at 4 lbs and a few ounces. 

I also replaced the guiderod and striker with aftermarket parts from CGW.  I run a 15lb recoil spring for USPSA but revert back to stock recoil rod and spring for social ammo. 

For lights, I have a OWB holster that accepts the P10C w/ Streamlight TLR-1 for night shoots as well as bedside, and an AIWB with the O-light PL-mini for EDC. 

Overall I like the P10C package as a good all around EDC/HD gun, and one that I also shoot in 3-gun or night matches.  However ever since I got a Sig 365XL the P10C has been relegated to bedside or truck gun.   Waiting on the Romeo 0 RDS to come out for my aging eyes with the 365XL. 

[davekoch]

FWIW ... I have the Mini 2 Valkyrie, which is a great light.  Today, Olight has a flash sale on the BALDR Pro, which I feel is superior.  Personally, went with the CGW competition striker and spring.  Holosun has great products.  Went with the green dot instead of red because it's a bit more visible in daylight.  If you carry appendix, you'll have no problem getting a holster.  I don't, so I did.  Went with a good leather one.

Good to hear you have good luck with mini2 Valkyrie. It's my first Olight, but I've heard good things about them. I really like the magnetic USB charger. That means I can charge it by my bead at night and just grab it if I need it. Nothing to unplug.

That Baldr Pro looks really nice. Quite a bit larger than the mini Valkyries though.

 I wear a IWB holster too and prefer the kydex/leather hybrids. It was really tough to find a CZ P10 holster that also fit the Olight, and suppressor height sights, and a red dot, and is also a hybrid IWB. I finally found that exact combination with a MaxTuck Hybrid at White hat holsters. It was somewhat reasonably priced at $58 shipped. I never tried them before so fingers crossed.

[davekoch]

Cool project, let us know how it goes.   I mod’ed a P10C last year to suit my desires for an EDC/HD gun.

Jagerwerks did the slide milling for an RMR and milled the slide for Ameriglo rear sight in front of the optic.  I added the same front and rear irons, only opted for a green fiber optic on my front sight.  I like how low the RMR sits, and the dot is right above the front sight post pretty much co-witnessed. 

Trigger I opted for the HBi trigger shoe.  I did play around with the different striker spring weights, but ultimately reverted back to stock spring after doing some polishing to remove the grit in the pull/break. 6-7K rnds later my trigger pull gauges at 4 lbs and a few ounces. 

I also replaced the guiderod and striker with aftermarket parts from CGW.  I run a 15lb recoil spring for USPSA but revert back to stock recoil rod and spring for social ammo. 

For lights, I have a OWB holster that accepts the P10C w/ Streamlight TLR-1 for night shoots as well as bedside, and an AIWB with the O-light PL-mini for EDC. 

Overall I like the P10C package as a good all around EDC/HD gun, and one that I also shoot in 3-gun or night matches.  However ever since I got a Sig 365XL the P10C has been relegated to bedside or truck gun.   Waiting on the Romeo 0 RDS to come out for my aging eyes with the 365XL.

Yeah, this is going to be a fun project. I've wanted to jump into pistol red dots for a while now. Looking for a really good RD host led me to the P10C. I'm just not a Glock fan and the CZ looks like it will fit the bill very nicely. Second place runner up was a CZ P01, which I still may buy at some point in the future (I love my PCR and often wish it had the light rail).

Why are you switch back and forth on the recoil springs? I saw a few posts from RainingBrass of Primary Machine about the P10C being over sprung and he's recommending a 13# spring. This was mostly in context of shooting suppressed though. I went with the 15# for a happy medium and I'll test it thoroughly suppressed and suppressed. Hopefully it will be a compromise that works for everything. I did buy an 18# spring just in case (they are only $6 from CGW).

The Sig 365XL looks cool. I'd like to get one of those. I'm a sucker for compact 4" barreled guns. I have a 4" barreled XDS and a 4" barreled Shield, the latter being optics ready if I can find a small optic that is reliable and has adjustable brightness (the Shield RMS it came with turned out to be not very good). I'm also hoping the Romeo 0 turns out to be a winner. Or maybe the new Shield RMSW. There's really nothing good in that micro size yet.

[2morechains]

It depends on the ammo you’re shooting. I like to match my recoil spring weight to the ammo.  15 lb seemed to give me good results with my minor PF match ammo.  Social ammo was too stout IMO to stay with the 15, 18 not too bad, but in the end my testing revealed best results with the factory stock spring.

I typically test springs by shooting bill drills (6 rnds sub 2 secs @ 7 yds) and look at my hits.  Too heavy a spring and subsequent hits trend low.  Too light and the hits trend high or all over the place.

[aflevine]

Dave, I looked hard at that Whitehat IWB.   If the leather came up higher, it would have been a done deal.  As is, the rear of the gun slide digs into my side when sitting creating a deep painful bruise.  Yes, losing weight would solve that problem.  Until then, it meant spending 4x as much for a comfortable custom leather holster. 

As an aside, I have velcro'd a Dr. Scholl's heel insert to my G26 kydex holster to spread the force when I sit without interfering with drawing the weapon.  An ugly hack that works quite well.

For my P-10C, I want a solution that will work for years.

[armoredman]

Hi Joe. Thanks for the suggestions.

I was thinking the same thing about the break-in. I was actually surprised that it broke in so quickly. I read some reports around the 'net that these guns were single shots with suppressors until around 200-250 rounds through them. That was definitely not the case with mine... 

She likes you. Good find, sir!

[davekoch]

It depends on the ammo you’re shooting. I like to match my recoil spring weight to the ammo.  15 lb seemed to give me good results with my minor PF match ammo.  Social ammo was too stout IMO to stay with the 15, 18 not too bad, but in the end my testing revealed best results with the factory stock spring.

I typically test springs by shooting bill drills (6 rnds sub 2 secs @ 7 yds) and look at my hits.  Too heavy a spring and subsequent hits trend low.  Too light and the hits trend high or all over the place.

Thanks for that advice. I'll try that.

 Does anyone know what the OEM spring weight is?

[davekoch]

Dave, I looked hard at that Whitehat IWB.   If the leather came up higher, it would have been a done deal.  As is, the rear of the gun slide digs into my side when sitting creating a deep painful bruise.  Yes, losing weight would solve that problem.  Until then, it meant spending 4x as much for a comfortable custom leather holster. 

As an aside, I have velcro'd a Dr. Scholl's heel insert to my G26 kydex holster to spread the force when I sit without interfering with drawing the weapon.  An ugly hack that works quite well.

For my P-10C, I want a solution that will work for years.

 It does look kind of skimpy in the area behind the gun. I may have to modify it.

As far as the ugly hack, as long as it works, concealed means concealed right? Nobody needs to know. 

[davekoch]

She likes you. Good find, sir!

I hope so! I like her too. 

[davekoch]

Filed under "Well, that didn't work the way I intended".

I thought that I would use some RIT Dye to color my gray frame to a nice plum color that I've used on AK furniture.  I mixed up my formula of brown and wine in water, heated my mixture to 165 degrees and dunked the large backstrap in for 30 minutes. It came out purple. 

 OK, let's dump that and try just brown. I dunked the medium backstrap in for 30 minutes. It came out blue. 

It seems I'm not the first to notice that the gray frame will only dye to blue based colors. https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=105881.0

You know what? I think I kind of like the gray after all. I'm glad I just tested it on the back straps and didn't dunk the whole frame. 

[davekoch]

I got my slide back from Primary Machine a couple weeks ago. It took them about three weeks to machine the slide cut and rear sight dovetail, then finish the slide with Cobalt Cerakote. I had them install my iron sights and mount the red dot. The front sight is a Dawson .275"x.100, and the rear is an Ameriglo GL-408 .360 for a Glock. They did a great job. I did remove the optic to put in a new Duracell battery before zeroing and even with the screws removed, the optic is a very tight fit in the slide.   

 I set an initial zero on the red dot by aligning the dot centered on the tip of the front sight blade and was expecting to need to adjust zero with live fire at 25 yards.  In fact, the iron sights were spot on at 25 yards, and I only needed one or two clicks of elevation and windage for the red dot. I probably just got lucky. 




While initially I had a Olight PL2 Mini Valkyrie light on this gun, I decided instead to use a Streamlight TLR-1 HL. It fits better on the rail and I plan to use this gun mainly as my bedside gun. The Olight will go on my P07 where it fits better due to the extra rail notches (that gun will also be primarily a CCW and the smaller light will work better for that).




While the slide was at Primary Machine, I stripped the frame down and polished the trigger. I also installed some upgraded parts from CGW.




 I refinished the slide catch, mag release and take down lever with gray Gunkote. I had Gunkoted the thread protector black, but then bought a nicer replacement from Primary Machine.




This past weekend I setup silhouette  targets at 5yds, 7yds and 25 yds, then using both my red dot equipped P10C and my iron sighted P07 (shot single action only), I shot controlled pairs as fast as I could obtain a sight picture at the upper chest and head of each target. I was not only able to make more accurate shots with the red dot than the irons, I was able to obtain a sight picture faster with the red dot. I had no issues with searching for the dot.  In fact I was able to acquired the dot hovering over the target much faster than aligning the front/rear sights and the target.  Above is the 5yd target shot with the P10C. I unfortunately had an issue with my phone crashing and lost the 7yd P10C target and the P07 targets.




This is the 25 yard target. I'm very happy with this for standing offhand rapid snap shooting.

 I'm really happy with the Holosun 507C and handgun red dots in general. So happy in fact, I just shipped my P07 slide to PM for the same exact configuration.