'Bullet Bulge'—The Nature of the Beast Seating Heavier Bullets (or just me)?

[Wobbly]

Many tell me 'it's only 9mm minor, just get pulling the handle'....

Here's what "many" are not telling you... They shoot only Ruger or Smith or Taurus, and their chambers do not present these issues during reloading. If they never had the issue, OF COURSE they have no conception, and thus have never investigated a process to cover it. You might as well ask a Muslim about Jesus... "Oh, no problem. He's a great teacher. We don't follow anything he says; we cover it all with lip service." Translation: Ignorance is bliss. The best thing to do is say 'thanks' and move on, because these type reloaders have no idea what they are talking about. Ignorance can be overcome with education, but those type are just plain stupid.

While I get ridiculed ( ) in my usual forum stomping grounds for using my trusty calipers more than some of them have used theirs in 50 years and the amount a math I try to introduce into the equation, I learn something with every measurement, with every forum post, and every nugget you guys leave throughout the forums.   

Then get the heck off those forums. If you profess to be a "good guy", but you drive around all day listening to rap music telling you you "kick that bitch" and "cap that homie", then guess what. One day you may act on that bad info. Because the brain absorbs everything. Why fill you brain with trash ?

I have visited those boards myself. I find them filled with guys who watched 15 YouTube vids and who now truly believe they are experts. You can't tell them anything, because they don't want to know anything. When I corrected one guy on Reddit he called me a "liar" and down-voted about 15 of my comments in other threads. So much for freedom of speech, being open to new ideas, etc.

Look, I've been reloading since ~1978. I'm a degreed ME. Graduation year, I was voted the top student in my entire state. I worked in advanced research and design (one place titled as a scientist) for 30 years. I hold a US Patent for new design. I tell you all that to say simply this... I come here because there are a double-handful of contributors who teach me new things everyday. My articles are simply a compilation of all I've learned here. If you'll check the edit date, you'll see I need to add new stuff about once a month !! Knowledge is a moving target. 'Rest on your laurels' and you're dead.

Even when I loaded longer than my barrel supported (making up sets of dummies to test in other firearms down the road), I still got the brass bulge:


 

Whoa!! Not every surface feature is a "bulge". Does it drop into the chamber and then back out using only its own weight ? This test was all covered in the Max OAL article. Do not pass GO. Go back and read some more.

Your problem is, you don't understand how the dies work. The Sizing die takes the brass OD under-size. Then the Expander comes in and opens up the INSIDE to the correct ID to hold the bullet. Think ! When you work with brass with 30 different wall thicknesses, how could it be any other way ??

So what you may be seeing is probably only the infamous "Coke Bottle" effect.

I recently bought a Redding comp seating die because I had so many different bullets I planned to play with and already got sick of loosening the Dillon lock ring, doing the 1/8th turn, locking back down, seat and repeat game...Godsend. 

All you had to do was add a 25 cent o-ring under the lock ring.




 

[Plato]

Whoa!! Not every surface feature is a "bulge". Does it drop into the chamber and then back out using only its own weight ? This test was all covered in the Max OAL article. Do not pass GO. Go back and read some more.

Your problem is, you don't understand how the dies work. The Sizing die takes the brass OD under-size. Then the Expander comes in and opens up the INSIDE to the correct ID to hold the bullet. Think ! When you work with brass with 30 different wall thicknesses, how could it be any other way ??

Yes, sir, "bulge" was used, as I don't know of any other way to describe it...but sure, it passes gauge, chambers fine, meets all specs all the way aaround, and is definitely sporting some nice case mouth tension...main concern was prematurely wearing out brass (and whether or not the pressures will be exacerbated).

I have no qualms shooting the rounds, though. My first load workup was going to start in the middle of the load data; but with the potential for it to impact pressures (or not), I did start at the bottom just to see if I see any impacts...but again, no qualms shooting them with the... 'bulge'

I finally finished sorting a couple years worth of mixed brass...have thousands of "FC" that are primarily my once-fired that I was going to use until it wears out, but have 15-18 other bags of other various headstamps...so will grab a half dozen and experiment. I did try with some Speer brass and not as pronounced. I'm a data geek, so will start compiling some case wall thicknesses, too, and see what's what.

All you had to do was add a 25 cent o-ring under the lock ring. 

Coincidentally, I just posted elsewhere about the lock ring...ended up removing the Redding lock ring and using a Dillon, so it doesn't move on me again and jack up my seating depth/OAL. I saw some dies (I think from Lee) that use an O-ring like you suggested...will keep o-rings in mind. For now, I used the Dillon rings.

I have grown to love the Redding die, though...each 'notch' being 0.001 sure beats turning and hoping in my book...and being a caliper guy who loves precision measurements, I'm sticking with the Redding. It gave me issues with my slightly larger bell as first, but it keeps me honest....JUST enough bell to sit the bullet there; a touch more and it will scrape the sides of the super tight Redding seating die walls.

Hmmm, wait! Speaking of super-tight die walls, while figuring out why my cases were scraping in the seating die, I noticed that although it's not a combo-crimp die, my cases were coming out .0015 tighter after passing through the tight mouth of the Redding.  I wonder....might have to get the stock Dillon die out and see if my 'bulge' can be replicated holding all else constant (i.e., same FC brass, same 147gr BB TC, etc) while just changing the die. Hmmm.

Nice toolhead! I got the same one, just the engraved version.  (Similar 10mm toolhead arrives tomorrow, but will be a couple more months of due diligence until I play in that sandbox).
 


Thanks again, sir.

[Plato]

A difference in how well you see that bulge may be case wall thickness.

Measure some bullets, seat them in the different brands of brass then measure the outside diameter and see if the "bulgy" brass is larger in OD.

A larger OD measurement might mean that brass has a "better" hold on the bullets, too.  Or it could mean the bullet is compressed and no longer the original OD near the base of the bullet if you're using soft bullets.

Good call, sir. I'm going to compile a little list and see if I can pick out a couple on the larger side (and thinner side), do some testing, and see if I can't mitigate the issue.

I did notice similar markings on some headstamps while sorting. I'm not sure I'll do that ever again (might not be as bad if I stay up on it, but first time ever sorting every case by headstamp and it sucked).

I use a .40 tray to count and look into every case for stepped brass/issues/whatever....got to the point where I could sort 80% of the cases by looking inside without seeing the headstamp. WINs were the easiest to cull from looking inside, but R-P and PMC were also easy...and remember each showing a similar ring around the mouth.

If I didn't vow to never pay factory prices again, hell, I would grab a box of AE 147gr (all the FC brass I am using comes from once-fired 124G AE), and use their "FC" 147 brass and see if it makes a difference.

Hmmm, no clue as all my Federal AE and HSTs are 124gr, but I wonder if they use different brass for the heavier load? Could it be thinner walls on their 147gr ammo, so you don't see what I see (the "bulge" when stuffing a 147gr in their cases) when factory fresh?

[Plato]

^^^ I know that sounds asinine, but I can see the accountants making the case that using a 0.0008 thinner wall on the 147gr brass than used on the 124gr brass would save them a few shinies each year.

"That's your problem—you're using '124gr brass' and stuffing it with a 147gr projectile!  lol

I'll play with some of the odd headstamps I had to plans to use later tonight. Thanks again, everyone.

[Wobbly]

Yes, sir, "bulge" was used, as I don't know of any other way to describe it...but sure, it passes gauge, chambers fine, meets all specs all the way around, and is definitely sporting some nice case mouth tension...main concern was prematurely wearing out brass (and whether or not the pressures will be exacerbated).

You have a normal looking, reloaded  9mm cartridge there.

• This is normal...


• This is abnormal "bulge", due to inability to enter the chamber...


• This is unsupported chamber syndrome, aka "Glock bulge"...


You're going to need to upgrade your lexicon. On this forum we don't use the word "bulge" unless the finished cartridge fails the chamber test. That is to say, fails to head space properly. Black words matter, so please use the right word. As it is, you simply have some strange surface features you need help explaining.

I have no qualms shooting the rounds, though. My first load workup was going to start in the middle of the load data; but with the potential for it to impact pressures (or not), I did start at the bottom just to see if I see any impacts...but again, no qualms shooting them with the... 'bulge'

I finally finished sorting a couple years worth of mixed brass...have thousands of "FC" that are primarily my once-fired that I was going to use until it wears out, but have 15-18 other bags of other various headstamps...so will grab a half dozen and experiment. I did try with some Speer brass and not as pronounced. I'm a data geek, so will start compiling some case wall thicknesses, too, and see what's what.

You experience zero problems exactly because you have ZERO "bulge".

Hmmm, wait! Speaking of super-tight die walls, while figuring out why my cases were scraping in the seating die, I noticed that although it's not a combo-crimp die, my cases were coming out .0015 tighter after passing through the tight mouth of the Redding.  I wonder....might have to get the stock Dillon die out and see if my 'bulge' can be replicated holding all else constant (i.e., same FC brass, same 147gr BB TC, etc) while just changing the die. Hmmm.

First of all you'll need a thermally controlled chamber to measure to 4 decimal places. So don't try to pass that off. I have no doubt your gauge had that readout, but you should probably know better. Especially on a tapered surface.

However, it is interesting that the dies continue to shape the cartridge. I don't really like that "feature". Shades of Lee FCD.

All the best.

[Wobbly]

If I didn't vow to never pay factory prices again, hell, I would grab a box of AE 147gr (all the FC brass I am using comes from once-fired 124G AE), and use their "FC" 147 brass and see if it makes a difference.

Hmmm, no clue as all my Federal AE and HSTs are 124gr, but I wonder if they use different brass for the heavier load? Could it be thinner walls on their 147gr ammo, so you don't see what I see (the "bulge" when stuffing a 147gr in their cases) when factory fresh?

I don't think M1A4ME was saying that the factories use different brass for different loads. So I think your purchase will be in vain. The parent company probably buys 1 billion cases at  time and simply loads them. To do separate case purchases would present a huge cost burden. Ordering, receiving, inspection, separate stocking, getting to the correct machine... it's a huge pain.... and thus cost.

Before you run off "half cocked" why don'y you simply ask him. We're fairly sure he's house trained, and doesn't bite.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

The interior walls of the Redding comp seater die is smaller than any other die brand of die, and according to Redding done by design. 

Am assuming you are using the Dillon expander.  The Dillon expander flares the case mouth kinda like a trumpet.  Check out the expander from DAA, it replaces the Dillon expander but has the stepped design of the Lyman "M" die.  Redding also includes the stepped design in their expanders.  The "M" die rather than flaring the case mouth outwardly it flares by stepping it out.  You can place the bullet into the case straighter and also doesnt work the brass as much due to not having to flare the case mouth as much.

https://op2.0ps.us/260-260-ffffff/opplanet-lyman-neck-expanding-pistol-m-die-for-44-mag-44-special-445-super-mag-7340820.jpg

The only brass I've had problems with and will not reload is Aguila 124 gr.  The 124 cases are different from 115 and 147 as they have a deep cannelure.  Those cases develop a donut shape.