Lee 9mm undersize sizer die.

[parastoo]

Hi,
    Thanks to everyone for the replies. I haven't started to reload yet: just slowly gathering what I need. For 9mm all I need are the dies more or less.

 Mark

[Wobbly]

I really believe that most people using a U-die actually don't need it. I believe they are actually having issues with their Expander, and blame it on the Sizing die. That is, they simply don't understand how the dies work... they never stop to think about the process.

Lee was one of the first to offer a U-die and Lee is notorious for 1) having over-sized Expanders, and 2) capitalizing on the "rumor mill" to rev up sales.

To be fair, brass thickness does vary from brand to brand. In theory, that could affect the grip on the bullet. BUT, what if you could get the correct bullet clinching size you need by simply refining the Expander diameter with some emery cloth ? That 1) allows the user to dial in the exact grip they need and, 2) saves them the time and money of ordering, purchasing, fitting, etc a second die. Isn't it better (in every conceivable way) to simply run one die over ALL the brass, rather than having to sort brass by brand and then swap Sizing dies accordingly ?

I have nothing against Lee. I use some of their products. I salute them for bringing a line of American made, value-loaded, highly ingenious products to our hobby which make entry for many new users even possible. But part of that Marketing ingenuity (I fear) is possibly being used to sell excess product.

Here's how the scam goes... the novice gets into reloading. Spends $30 on a Lee die set. Oops! An issue with the ammunition. Internet tells the novice to buy a U-die for another $18. Done. Later on, another issue pops up. Internet tells the novice they must have a FCD for another $35. Done.

But hold on... the novice just spent $83, when they could have had a set of dies from Redding or Hornady for $45 !! It also never occurs that brass was reloaded for 100 years without either accessory. At no time does anyone suggest that the novice stop, and simply measure the dimensions of the brass at the root of the problem. This is extremely strange, because this same group of people are the ones measuring cartridge OAL to 4 decimal places and fretting about 0.001" of OAL variation.   

The short story is that all these novices are running around looking for solutions, when they should be looking for understanding. Whether Lee is fanning the flames, or simply happy to sell a fix for the problem they may have created is unknown. All I know is what I've observed for the last 20 years.

 

[Clint007]

Hi,
    Thanks to everyone for the replies. I haven't started to reload yet: just slowly gathering what I need. For 9mm all I need are the dies more or less.

 Mark

If you are new to reloading, what caliber (I assume 9mm fm the thread above), and make of bullets do you plan to load? 

What press?   I’ve been around the block with loading 9mm from a 550b to a 1050 now up to a very fast automated Mark 7.  I shoot about 60k of 9per year.   I have 1/100 the insight some of these guys have but I’ve made pretty much every (non-injurious) mistake one could make and bought a lot of useless crap along the way.

Buy the minimum for now and if at all possible find a local reloading veteran - most clubs have one or two that everyone recognizes as having lots of experience- to help you in person if possible. Some reloading supply stores or gun shops might know also.  Even if he charges you a bit, it’ll save you time and unnecessary expense as you learn the basics.

The U die is fine but has it’s own purpose, and isn’t really needed by 90% of loads.  and as Wobbly said - listen to him he is one of the several chaps here that knows a lot - it’s how the die fits with the other dies and expander etc....and the bullets etc. even your barrel makes a difference....if you have a oddly tight chamber and are shooting plump coated lead bullets it’s actually possibly different than shooting an M&P with .355 jacket hollow points. 

If the U die was “better’, then all other manufacturers would have long ago retooled their products to match it, and all dies would be U-like.

[Bret]

I really believe that most people using a U-die actually don't need it.

Wobbly, I think your analysis here is spot on.

[bang bang]

i think whats going on with teh U die is that the op is looking for gear and thats about all they can find.

maybe looking/buyiing in panic mode?

but i get the impression its kluge time.

[Crawl]

It might be that my Hornady sizing die sizes cases down more than is typical.

Bret may be onto something here.

I run the U die because it doesn't have that ridiculous, tall zip spindle which prevents me from using all 5 stages the way I want to on the Hornady LNL Progressive.

I haven't measured the dimensions from my Hornady 9mm dies, like Wobbly suggests, but I have compared results of the Hornady 223 die to an RCBS small base die (a die that I am CONVINCED is unnecessary).

Both of my Hornady 223 dies give me the same or smaller dimensions than the RCBS small base.

Could be that @Wobbly knows what he's talking about...[emoji848]

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

[Wobbly]

If the U die was “better’, then all other manufacturers would have long ago retooled their products to match it, and all dies would be U-like.

U-may have something.    Lee sells 90% of the U-dies, but you are most likely to need a U-die when you begin with a Lee die set. It simply reminds me of the guy at work that creates a big problem, then solves it and expects a promotion. I hate those type people.

Could be that @Wobbly knows what he's talking about...[emoji848]

Highly unlikely. 

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

Yep!

[parastoo]

i think whats going on with teh U die is that the op is looking for gear and thats about all they can find.

maybe looking/buyiing in panic mode?

but i get the impression its kluge time.

Hi,
    You got it. Although I found a Hornady set that I didn't buy; I've been spending so much money lately I just couldn't pull the trigger, so to speak. 
     What's kluge time?
Thanks,
            Mark

[Wobbly]

You got it. Although I found a Hornady set that I didn't buy; I've been spending so much money lately I just couldn't pull the trigger, so to speak. 

Mark -
Absolutely not trying to scare you, brother. All the equipment sold today will load excellent ammo, and is 100 times better than what you could get in the 1970's. We're simply trying to alert you to some of the finer points of the equipment.

We want you to have an all-around deeper understanding so you don't end up on Friday evening at 1AM, stumped on some detail without any help.

The amount of money you spend up-front can be staggering !! We're with you there. But until you decide to buy a second press, 95% of the money has gone to equipment that will last 20+ years. I'm still using things bought in 1978 with my Rock Chucker kit. So whether you see it now or not, there is huge utility in your investment, and it's money you won't need to spend ever again.

Do this... Make a spread sheet of all the equipment and component costs so far. Then as you begin to make ammo, subtract the equivalent ammo prices you would have paid... the store prices. In 6 to 9 months the equipment will have paid for itself. If you track it, then you'll see.

All the best.