Author Topic: Self Defense Loads for Black Bear  (Read 2720 times)

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Offline Clint007

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Self Defense Loads for Black Bear
« on: May 01, 2021, 02:38:46 PM »
I have been testing some 180 gr Hornday XTP bullets over Longshot trying to replicate (roughly) an Underwood load for the purposes of defense against humans and bear. This will be for my new 97BD conversion to 10mm by CZ Custom. I also have a Glock 29 and Glock 20. The 29 is my EDC gun.  I have chron'd the load in the 97, and muzzle velocities are in the high 1200s. Haven't shot it yet in the 29, but I will soften this load in that plastic small gun to match more typical SD loads.

My wife, whom I love, has frequently but good-naturedly scoffed at the idea that I would need to shoot at a bear.

Yesterday afternoon, a 39 year old woman went for a walk with her two small dogs near Durango, CO. She was later found dead, partially consumed by a bear. Several bears have been captured for necropsy to confirm the suspect bear.  One bear was a mother with cubs, and of course they can be the fiercest.

This occurred 0.5 miles from my 2nd home in Durango, and my house is actually in more wilderness area than this incident.

The dogs were found alive and well.

And so for those (not here I'm sure) who roll their eyes at the need for an appropriate load for a black bear, this incident can be referenced.

Also, brothers, please note, that on this date, earlier today, in my Arizona home, unfortunately with no witnesses, a wife admitted to her husband of 25 years that she might have been wrong about an earlier judgment.   I am currently working to chisel her verbatim words into the brick of the room wherein this statement was uttered.

Clint
Temere phrase latine usus sum ut magna canetis

Offline amada8

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Re: Self Defense Loads for Black Bear
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2021, 04:14:19 PM »
My wife carries the bear spray, bells while I have my G20 on our neighborhood walks with our on-leash dog.  Central CO (near Vail) with frequent bear/cougar sightings throughout spring and fall.
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Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Self Defense Loads for Black Bear
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2021, 06:40:19 PM »
I never roll my eyes at those looking for a load for bear at all. I roll my eyes at guys who should have sense enough to be carrying ANYTHING more powerful than a handgun when you could encounter an animal large enough to have you for supper. Maybe a high caliber handgun in the .44mag or higher range but certainly a high caliber rifle.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 06:50:17 PM by SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM »

Offline Grendel

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Re: Self Defense Loads for Black Bear
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2021, 06:52:48 PM »
In my yard at the end of last month:



I carry every time I am outside
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Offline david s

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Re: Self Defense Loads for Black Bear
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2021, 08:21:13 PM »
Where I hunt near Ovando Mt. there's a drainage called Dunham/Lodgepole. It has the highest density (not highest population but more per square mile) of grizzly's than anywhere else in the lower 48 states. When varmint or bow hunting I carry a heavy handgun. Rifle season I carry a grouse pistol (22-32 caliber) as my hunting rifle makes way more sense if there's an encounter. I tend tword non expanding (cast) pistol bullets at around 1200 FPS. If there's room for more velocity I add bullet weight instead. Mostly 41 and 44 revolvers with a single S&W 625 45 Colt (285 grain bullet @ 950 fps) in these situations. Recently I've been playing with the 10 mm Auto. Originally in a 1911 but about 4 months ago added a Glock model 20. The goal with the 10 mm has been 200 grains at 1200 fps. My only 10mm mould is for the NOE 403-198-WFN. So far I haven't made 1200 fps with it. When calling elk during bow season or varmints it can be interesting what comes in to your call. Not just coyote or bobcat but wolfs, mtn lion or bears (black or grizzly). The coyotes come into a call with there guards up even if they have never been varmint hunted before. Most large caliber handguns are really pretty minor if you really think about it but still probably the most practical choice.

Offline tdogg

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Re: Self Defense Loads for Black Bear
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2021, 10:44:39 PM »
Also, brothers, please note, that on this date, earlier today, in my Arizona home, unfortunately with no witnesses, a wife admitted to her husband of 25 years that she might have been wrong about an earlier judgment.   I am currently working to chisel her verbatim words into the brick of the room wherein this statement was uttered.

Clint

Congratulations!  This rare admonition is something to cherish and of course bring up over and over and over again!

There's no replacement for displacement as long as you can handle it.  The 97 most likely can.

Cheers,
Toby
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Offline Wobbly

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Offline double-d

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Re: Self Defense Loads for Black Bear
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2021, 09:23:13 AM »
For this purpose, I purchased a Ruger Alaskan in .480 Ruger. Found it slightly easier to shoot out a short barrel than my friends .454 Casull 

Seldom shoot it..... is an emergency firearm while deer/elk hunting in bear/cat country.

skin

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Re: Self Defense Loads for Black Bear
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2021, 02:59:11 PM »
 I've been shooting a 10mm for a long time now. For general shooting, I use 180 gr xtp's. When I go hog hunting, I switched to 200 gr fmj  bullets at about 1150 fps. On big hogs, the 180's didn't penetrate deep enough. I would imagine you would have the same problem with a bear.

Offline Clint007

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Re: Self Defense Loads for Black Bear
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2021, 05:53:40 PM »
I've been shooting a 10mm for a long time now. For general shooting, I use 180 gr xtp's. When I go hog hunting, I switched to 200 gr fmj  bullets at about 1150 fps. On big hogs, the 180's didn't penetrate deep enough. I would imagine you would have the same problem with a bear.

are hogs unusually tough skinned?  the only hogs i encounter are at a BBQ. I’m not a ballistics gel kind of guy but i did read and watch some testing reports on the internet so I know it’s true (right?). in any event, I was seeing penetration through ballistics gel greater than 16 inches at velocities less than 1200 FPS.  i figured if i can run 1200-1240 safely that would suffice for a black bear....but i’m no expert.
Temere phrase latine usus sum ut magna canetis

skin

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Re: Self Defense Loads for Black Bear
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2021, 08:29:13 PM »
 Hogs have a tough and thick hide around the shoulder called a shield. Normally rifle and pistol bullets like hp's open up too quick and lack penetration. Fmj's and bullets like Lehigh extreme penetrator provide deep penetration and a large permanent wound channel for a pistol.

Offline Hammer Time

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Re: Self Defense Loads for Black Bear
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2021, 08:54:14 PM »
I live on the edge of Yellowstone - pretty much any hike I go on near my house involves the possibility of an encounter with a grizz or black bear, along with an abundant mtn lion population, and wolves. I carry a P220 in 10mm loaded with Underwood 200gr HCFN when hiking.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Self Defense Loads for Black Bear
« Reply #12 on: May 03, 2021, 09:47:52 AM »
In my yard at the end of last month: I carry every time I am outside.


Side story... We had a 20yo Korean exchange student stay with us one summer. Our property adjoins the 160,000 acre Chattahoochee Nat Forest in a sparsely populated area of north GA. This slight, 98lb girl, who lived in a downtown high-rise in Seoul, insisted on sneaking out at night to take long walks without our knowledge.

One night a neighbor spotted her and told us, so we had to have a "sit down". When I told her there were at least 3 large carnivores (bear, panther & coyotes) hunting around our home at night, plus 3 poisonous snakes and other rabid wildlife, her eyes got as big as saucers. The thought of wild, uncaged animals had never crossed her mind.  :o
In God we trust; On 'Starting Load' we rely.