380+P ammo in CZ 83

[wilson7]

Am I correct to assume that the CZ 83 can safely handle .380+P ammo, assuming the recoil spring is changed as needed?  Since the CZ 82 and some CZ 83 are built for the more powerful 9x18 Makarov round.
.380      21,500 psi
9 Mak    24,100 psi
.380+P  23,000 psi as loaded by one manufacturer (although no official spec)
Thanks

[eastman]

since there is no SAAMI spec, you really have no idea what is in the box

[wilson7]

since there is no SAAMI spec, you really have no idea what is in the box

Generally, yes.  But at this time one of the two main manufacturers of 380+P says they load to 23,000 PSI and the other has said they are 5% over SAAMI spec.  Both are in the range of 9mm Makarov SAAMI spec.

[Wobbly]

Some thoughts...
• I suggest you call CZ USA and ask them. No one here is going to accept the liability of saying "yes, that's fine".

• One thing to remember is that the chamber pressures numbers you are quoting are measured in a locked breech gun, which the CZ83 is not. I'm not sure you'd be getting the performance you'd be paying for or expecting.

• Your assumption of interchangeability is predicated on the metal barrel blank that CZ used to make the .380 barrel being the same one they use to make the 9 Mak barrel. I'm not convinced that's a totally safe assumption to make.

[eastman]

Some thoughts...
• I suggest you call CZ USA and ask them. No one here is going to accept the liability of saying "yes, that's fine".

• One thing to remember is that the chamber pressures numbers you are quoting are measured in a locked breech gun, which the CZ83 is not. I'm not sure you'd be getting the performance you'd be paying for or expecting.

• Your assumption of interchangeability is predicated on the metal barrel blank that CZ used to make the .380 barrel being the same one they use to make the 9 Mak barrel. I'm not convinced that's a totally safe assumption to make.

The 9mm Maks have polygonal rifling, the .380 don't

[AZ_CZ]

But why would you use +P?

[wilson7]

But why would you use +P?

Just seeing if it has some advantages for my use.  The CZ 83 is my favorite carry gun around the farm for many reasons.  Wanting to see if very light bullets in 380+P will shoot flatter for longer distances instead of reaching for the Tokarev or the Super7. 

Plus the +P loading (in light bullets) seems to cycle the slide the same as my heavier bulk rounds.  They both drop the brass in the exact same spot.  I am afraid the same light bullets in the standard round may not have enough push without going to a lighter recoil spring.

It may not result in what I want - Haven't tested comparative accuracy at longer distances yet.  But worth looking at.

[wilson7]

Some thoughts...
• I suggest you call CZ USA and ask them. No one here is going to accept the liability of saying "yes, that's fine".

• One thing to remember is that the chamber pressures numbers you are quoting are measured in a locked breech gun, which the CZ83 is not. I'm not sure you'd be getting the performance you'd be paying for or expecting.

• Your assumption of interchangeability is predicated on the metal barrel blank that CZ used to make the .380 barrel being the same one they use to make the 9 Mak barrel. I'm not convinced that's a totally safe assumption to make.

Thanks, all good points.  When I find my chronograph I can see if it gives up some of the expected gains.  With the 380+P in other firearms the concern seems to be excessive wear from lighter than needed internals/frame and usually not strength of barrel.  But the CZ83 appears to be one of the beefiest 380s out there and was designed for a higher pressure round than the (fictitious) 380+P as currently loaded.   I was concerned about possible inadequate case support in the blowback operation.  But the light bullet +Ps seem to cycle the slide the same as normal bulk ammo and the brass ends up exactly in the same spot.  I am not using heavy 380+P and I assume there would be a need for switching to a heavier recoil spring with them.

[wilson7]

and I found my chronograph.  These rounds performed as rated for velocity.