USPSA DA/SA hammer position at start

[Auslander]

I may be confused, but the way I read the regulations, if the weapon is equipped with a decocker, you are permitted to use, otherwise the hammer must be manually lowered completely.

Am I reading correctly?  I’m asking because I’ve always lowered to the hammer safety notch (hold hammer, release sear, finger off trigger and lower hammer) for safety’s sake. Taking it all the way down until it rests against the firing pin seems, to me, to be a bad practice. From a practical perspective, a decocker only lowers to the notch so there shouldn’t be an unfair advantage to lower a manual safety weapon to the safety notch as well.

Am I correct in my interpretation?  I’m new to the competition world and started with a striker so it never came up.


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[Earl Keese]

USPSA rules require a DA/SA hammer to be lowered manually to the fully decocked position. As you said, a decocker DA/SA can be decocked to the half-cock notch. Makes no sense, but that's the rule.

[Auslander]

Thanks.

Certainly explains the profile of the “competition” hammer.

I imagine the regulation made sense at some point, or maybe not.


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[Whereisit]

I did my first IDPA this past Sunday and I used my PCR. I was told I can't use a decocker. Either it had to be fully decocked or uncocked. I chose fully decocked. I didnt understand the reason of why I couldn't just use the decocker. Trying to fully decock it seemed more of a safety hazard imo.

[steel]

This is incorrect.

With respect to IDPA, firearms with a hammer de-cocking lever or button (CZ PCR, P-01 etc.) will have their hammer de-cocked using the lever or button.  In this case the competitor will be starting with the hammer in the half cock position.

Selective DA/SA firearms (CZ 75B, Compacts etc.) will start the course of fire with hammer down.  If the hammer must be lowered by pulling the trigger and manually lowering the hammer, the hammer will be lowered to the lowest position possible.  In this case, the competitor will be starting with the hammer fully lowered.


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[Raven45]

I did my first IDPA this past Sunday and I used my PCR. I was told I can't use a decocker. Either it had to be fully decocked or uncocked. I chose fully decocked. I didnt understand the reason of why I couldn't just use the decocker. Trying to fully decock it seemed more of a safety hazard imo.

If the match you attended was an IDPA affiliated or sponsored match, the match official who told you that you could not use a decocker to lower the hammer on your pistol either misunderstands the rules, chooses to ignore the rules, or misinterpreted the IDPA rules

OR . . . . .

The club hosting the match has a club-specific safety rule against the use of decockers

[Whereisit]

I did my first IDPA this past Sunday and I used my PCR. I was told I can't use a decocker. Either it had to be fully decocked or uncocked. I chose fully decocked. I didnt understand the reason of why I couldn't just use the decocker. Trying to fully decock it seemed more of a safety hazard imo.

If the match you attended was an IDPA affiliated or sponsored match, the match official who told you that you could not use a decocker to lower the hammer on your pistol either misunderstands the rules, chooses to ignore the rules, or misinterpreted the IDPA rules

OR . . . . .

The club hosting the match has a club-specific safety rule against the use of decockers

I'm not sure tbh... He just simply stated the rules don't allow the use of a decocker. Maybe it's club specific rule. It was my first time doing anything like this and so I wasn't really familiar with the rules. I did have a great time and everyone there was very welcoming and supportive.

[tdogg]

This is one rule that should be changed.   There is no sound reason for manual safety model guns to have to fully lower their hammers while decockers can stay at half cock.   This rule resulted in an RO getting shot and killed at a match in NY a couple of years ago when a shooter didn't holster their gun properly and it fell to the ground and landed on the hammer causing  the gun to fire.   Had it been at the half cock position,  it shouldn't have fired.

Not sure why they haven't addressed it yet?

Cheers,
Toby

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[Johnny Chimpo]

I may be confused, but the way I read the regulations, if the weapon is equipped with a decocker, you are permitted to use, otherwise the hammer must be manually lowered completely.

Am I reading correctly?  I’m asking because I’ve always lowered to the hammer safety notch (hold hammer, release sear, finger off trigger and lower hammer) for safety’s sake. Taking it all the way down until it rests against the firing pin seems, to me, to be a bad practice. From a practical perspective, a decocker only lowers to the notch so there shouldn’t be an unfair advantage to lower a manual safety weapon to the safety notch as well.

Am I correct in my interpretation?  I’m new to the competition world and started with a striker so it never came up.


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Here are the rules:
USPSA Rules Appendix D4 Production Division
Special conditions:
1. Only Double Action, Double Action/Single Action, and Safe Action/Striker Fired handguns are allowed, and must be on the approved list. When in the ready conditions as specified under 8.1, a gun with an external hammer must be hammer down. A hammer is considered to be in the "hammer down" position when the hammer is placed there by pulling the trigger while manually lowering the hammer (manually decocking) or by activating the decocking lever if present. Manually decocking to the half-cocked position is not allowed and will result in the competitor being moved to Open division.

USPSA Rules Appendix D7 Carry Optics Division
Special conditions:
1. Only Double Action, Double Action/Single Action, and Safe Action/Striker Fired handguns are allowed, and must be on the approved list. When in the ready conditions as specified under 8.1, a gun with an external hammer must be hammer down. A hammer is considered to be in the "hammer down" position when the hammer is placed there by pulling the trigger while manually lowering the hammer (manually decocking) or by activating the decocking lever if present. Manually decocking to the half-cocked position is not allowed and will result in the competitor being moved to Open division.

If your handgun has a decocker you can either use it and start with the hammer wherever it stops from using the decocker OR you can manually lower the hammer all the way down.

If your handgun does not have a decocker you must lower the hammer manually all the way down.

Manually lowering the hammer to any position other than all the way down immediately moves you to Open division.

[Johnny Chimpo]

This is one rule that should be changed.   There is no sound reason for manual safety model guns to have to fully lower their hammers while decockers can stay at half cock.   This rule resulted in an RO getting shot and killed at a match in NY a couple of years ago when a shooter didn't holster their gun properly and it fell to the ground and landed on the hammer causing  the gun to fire.   Had it been at the half cock position,  it shouldn't have fired.

Not sure why they haven't addressed it yet?

Cheers,
Toby

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Pure conjecture to say that if the pistol had been at half cock it wouldn't have fired.

[tdogg]

I didn't say wouldn't have fired,  I said shouldn't have fired.  Not a guarantee but more unlikely to not have happened.

Cheers,
Toby

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[Johnny Chimpo]

I did my first IDPA this past Sunday and I used my PCR. I was told I can't use a decocker. Either it had to be fully decocked or uncocked. I chose fully decocked. I didnt understand the reason of why I couldn't just use the decocker. Trying to fully decock it seemed more of a safety hazard imo.

Agree with @steel

The IDPA rules actually require the decocker to be used, if the pistol is equipped with one.

A.1 Stock Service Pistol Division (SSP)
A.1.2 Start Condition
A.1.2.1 Selective DA/SA firearms will start hammer down.
A.1.2.2 Firearms with a hammer de-cocking lever or button will have their hammer de-cocked using the lever or button.
A.1.2.3 If the hammer must be lowered by pulling the trigger and manually lowering the hammer, the hammer will be lowered to the lowest position possible.
A.1.2.4 Manual safeties may be engaged at the shooter’s discretion.

A.2 Enhanced Service Pistol Division (ESP)
A.2.2 Start Condition:
A.2.2.1 Single action only firearms will start with the hammer cocked and the safety engaged.
A.2.2.2 Selective DA/SA firearms may start cocked and locked or de-cocked, at the shooter’s discretion.
A.2.2.3 DA, DAO, or striker fired firearms with a de-cocking lever or button will be de-cocked using the lever or button.
A.2.2.4 DA, DAO, or striker-fired firearms may have a manual safety engaged at the shooter’s discretion.

Notice the highlighted words.......they make the use of the decocker mandatory, not optional.

My experience with local IDPA match Safety Officers is that they are severely lacking in rules knowledge, at least in my area.  I say that after several years of comparing them to USPSA Range Officers.  For the sake of disclosure I am a USPSA certified Range Officer.

[2morechains]

Not sure why they haven't addressed it yet?

Cheers,
Toby

Email your AD and encourage him to support this.  If enough members request the change they may act on it.