Short Rail rumors

[solisis]

Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a source for claims like Vickers saying the shortrail frames cracked? I've only heard of the general rumor that CZ modified the design out of theory and not because of historical failure. Now, I have no credible source for my info either, but I definitely cannot find where Vickers got his info. Anyone have a source that is legit?

This is an older thread asking basically the same question. Just hoping someone happened across more info since then.
https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=107521.0

Other wonder is about how many of these do you think are in the USA? This is not hoping for an actual answer, but more of a guess. If there are about 20k short rails out there, and most are on the eastern hemisphere where they routinely sell for some 400 to 800 euros, then at least a hand full have made their way here, where they routinely sell between $1500 to $3500 give or take. I know some importers got a hold of a few, but I, myself, have only seen them come up for sale on gunbroker and other gun sites like armslist about 4 times in the past 6 years. Surely there has to be more than a few being passed around when times get tough.

Finally, does anyone know of an existing '76 somewhere out there in the public landscape? I know one guy on these forums in Switzerland has a '75, but if anyone admitted to having a '76, I must have overlooked it.

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

There was talk of some issues with cracking on the VERY earliest guns but to simply say the short rails cracked is an uninformed blanket statement. Lets be honest though with what those guns bring today you'd be crazy to fire it given it's irreplaceability. Those guns have achieved true collectible safe queen status at this point. If I had one I would not fire it.
Friend of mine was shooting an early 70's Python a few months back and cracked the forcing cone with hot magnum loads. Yeah he's still crying.

[solisis]

Oh wow that's painful!

I have replacement parts for the things that are common to break, but I do shoot mine a little. I've put less than 100 rounds through it because it jams a lot. All things considered, I may just preserve it and hide it for another decade or so. I only used some basic range ammo and a few rounds of defensive just to see if it would cycle rounds with a different shape from the era it came from. It cycled the few rounds of defensive ammo, but on CCI range ammo it jammed about every 3 rounds. Mostly on 115gr CCI jacketed. It handled 124 better. The defensive was 147. Nothing overpowered though. I'd be afraid to stress it even if it is proved to be stronger. I'd really hate to be the one that has evidence to support Vicker's claim.

In all honesty though, it's pretty cool from a historical perspective, but mine wasn't all that impressive as far as accuracy and general feel. And the barrel is in excellent shape. But that's ok. I don't have it because I believe it is the ultimate carry gun or anything. I just wanted to do a side by side comparison against my other CZ 75s and variants. Maybe I'll try to compose a youtube video lining up the full range, including CZC just to appease all the short rail nuts like myself out there who want more info and more data on them.

[armoredman]

I hate seeing guns not being shot, why I don't believe in commemoratives a such. Guns are made to be shot. But, like has been said, replacement parts are virtually impossible to find. I wonder - have you asked CZ-UB or CZ-USA what ammo they would recommend for such a beautiful find? I'm assuming it's not your carry sidearm.

[Psyop96]

“Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!” Well, only for those who remember their Monty Python.

At the top of the CZ 75 Pistol Club sub-forum is a pinned topic titled, “CZ 75 History and serial range”. Within that is a chapter that has some information on the early cast short-rail frames and the cracking issue initially linked to Spanish production. This information is obtained from a Czech language book by a noted Czech author with many books on CZ history and firearms.

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=104108


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[solisis]

I hate seeing guns not being shot, why I don't believe in commemoratives a such. Guns are made to be shot. But, like has been said, replacement parts are virtually impossible to find. I wonder - have you asked CZ-UB or CZ-USA what ammo they would recommend for such a beautiful find? I'm assuming it's not your carry sidearm.

I did. But it was grouped in a more lump sum email with numerous questions. They ended up getting me what I needed for replacement parts, like the cold war slide stop, a spare pre-b mag, and said I am probably safe not using a spare hammer, even though that's the only component on mine showing any wear. This was some time ago.

It's definitely not my carry. The few times I did throw caution down the toilet and carried it was on small excursions in snake land where one shot is all you should need and jamming wouldn't be a problem. Well, not much of one.

I didn't try asking CZ-UB though. That's a good idea.

[solisis]

At the top of the CZ 75 Pistol Club sub-forum is a pinned topic titled, “CZ 75 History and serial range”. Within that is a chapter that has some information on the early cast short-rail frames and the cracking issue initially linked to Spanish production.
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Yes, that looks far more legit! And I believe this is the rumor concept I heard of, so thanks for linking back to the source. The idea being it was a preventative thing but not from production models actually cracking. I'll see if I can read into the whole thing. For anyone not wanting to follow links, here's the paragraph about it:

The following information is culled from the Pazdera book, CZ 75 Pribeh cesky legendy (published late 2020) -
Most of the frames for the short rails were forged. CZ started moving to investment casting of the frames in 1978 but had made only 200 at year-end. With cast frame production capacity of only about 200 a month, the company sought to add capacity from another source. Negotiations on production of pistols outside of Czechoslovakia had already started in 1977 between Merkuria (Czechoslovak exporter) and the Spanish company, Alfa in Eiba. An agreement was concluded in 1979 to produce the cast frames. In March, 1979, tests on Spanish cast frames revealed cracks that were also observed on Uhersky Brod cast frames. It resulted in the decision to beef up the frame and slide for the second generation design. With this design change which took some time to implement, the first modified Spanish frames arrived in January 1980 and the design change was implemented into UB production in the Spring of 1980. While this co-operation did not meet expectations (quality and delivery issues slowed down production), it did help CZ significantly increase production in the early 80s.  By the mid-80s, CZ had ceased to use the Spanish source.

This would seem to indicate: The cracking issue observed was related to the cast frame production that started at the very end of 1978. Spanish frames were probably not used in short rail production since they didn't arrive until January 1980 after the design change. There are some 1980 proofed short-rails from UB as the design change was not fully implemented until Spring 1980 (see next chapter). No mention is made of the disposition/status of the fewer cast frame pistols produced before the cracking issue was discovered in early 1979 nor of any reports of mass failures nor recalls (different era of geopolitics).