Author Topic: 3,000 rds. in Czech VZ: zero issues. Total count as of today.  (Read 3973 times)

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Offline Laufer

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3,000 rds. in Czech VZ: zero issues. Total count as of today.
« on: November 22, 2022, 08:41:32 PM »
Fwiw, the Czechpoint Sporter was bought in spring 2019, nib via Buy now. Only "alterations" are external:  the reddish beaver furniture, and a Slovakian muzzle brake were added very early . That's all.

A piece of every used ammo box is stored in a large baggy, and counted in groups of ten.

All of it has been "Wolf" (US-marketed brand), Tula, Monarch, some Vympel etc.

The mags are a pair of standard Czech polymer, plus a fraction of the ammo is loaded in the metal magazine.
Cleaned with Ballistol about every 60-100 rds., leaving a thin layer and Also 'a few 'drops' (Q-tips' worth) of reddish Mobile One grease rubbed  on the rails.

I would gladly buy another Czechpoint/CSA, and at today's average prices. 8)   

« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 12:51:08 AM by Laufer »

Offline czrob2

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Re: 3,000 rds. in Czech VZ: zero issues. Total count as of today.
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2022, 03:12:42 PM »
Congrats. Like several people here, it's my favorite gun.

Cleaned with Ballistol about every 60-100 rds., leaving a thin layer and Also 'a few 'drops' (Q-tips' worth) of reddish Mobile One grease rubbed  on the rails.

That seems...excessive?  Props to you, but that isn't necessary.  Perhaps use something other than Mobile One if you feel that is somehow needed.

Offline MudPie

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Re: 3,000 rds. in Czech VZ: zero issues. Total count as of today.
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2022, 05:26:53 PM »
I plan on putting an ever-so-thin coating of Lubri-Plate on the rails of my VZ58 when it's finished.  Why Lubri-Plate ?  It was used by the military, I was military, my Dad put it on his M1 Garand since the 50's, I inherited it and continue to use it and it just plain works.  You'd never know how many rounds went through that Garand by inspecting it.

I use it on all my weapons.  The trick is to apply sparingly, to where you barely see it. You slop it on, you got problems.

Offline Laufer

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Re: 3,000 rds. in Czech VZ: zero issues. Total count as of today.
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2022, 01:19:02 AM »
czrob2: I don't actually know how often (x rds, used) there should be a fairly good cleaning of the internals of my VZ and Maadi AKM (had many rifles since 2007).

But because my pair of Delayed Roller Blowback PTR-91s (HK clones) get filthy very quickly, they can use it about every 40-60/80 rds., without a doubt.

The general interval I mentioned is simply a method to not Forget about, or put off internal cleaning too long in the VZ and Maadi.

Folks, what is your Perceived advantage of rails etc being lubed with Lubriplate vs the reddish grease of Mobile One?

My gun bug didn't "bite" until age 52  :(. Am now 67.


Offline RSR

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Re: 3,000 rds. in Czech VZ: zero issues. Total count as of today.
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2022, 02:38:30 AM »
czrob2: I don't actually know how often (x rds, used) there should be a fairly good cleaning of the internals of my VZ and Maadi AKM (had many rifles since 2007).

But because my pair of Delayed Roller Blowback PTR-91s (HK clones) get filthy very quickly, they can use it about every 40-60/80 rds., without a doubt.

The general interval I mentioned is simply a method to not Forget about, or put off internal cleaning too long in the VZ and Maadi.

Folks, what is your Perceived advantage of rails etc being lubed with Lubriplate vs the reddish grease of Mobile One?

My gun bug didn't "bite" until age 52  :(. Am now 67.

Dirty and actually requiring cleaning for reliability reasons are two separate things.  Cleaning every 500 rounds does make cleaning sessions take less time, and is roughly most folks' cosmetic limits -- but you can often go quite awhile longer insofar as reliability is concerned, provided your gun isn't highly tuned or working outside of its design parameters (ammo, temps, etc.).

Cleaning less than every 100 rounds/that often, make sure you use a one-piece cleaning rod or just using a bore snake.  Cleaning guns after every firing is a carry over from black powder times primarily (as it has corrosive salts like some corrosive primers still found in some surplus ammo that transmit less of the same), but also due to military procedures...  More wear and damage to a firearm can and often does occur during cleaning than shooting.

So for civilians, most modern guns don't require cleaning after every use, so long as you keep them well lubricated...  Wipe down things that might rust with an oily rag, but more than that every shooting session is often overkill.

Lubriplate 130a is a nearly 100 year old grease blend, so likely no benefit over mobil 1 other than nostalgia.

Personally, I'd argue Slip 2000's EWG is superior to Mobil 1 synthetic as it's actually fully synthetic and designed for firearms -- and isn't red, potentially causing stains...

I like that grease stays in place and since it doesn't compress, provides a cushion in most instances that helps to tighten up firearm actions w/ no detriment on reliability/function.  Places that I can't get to with grease, like pin pivot points, I'll use oil, but anything I can access without too much disassembly I generally just grease. 

I do wipe down blued guns/barrels w/ G96's CLP especially for storage after handling (and generally use it exclusively for lubricant in older firearms I shoot rarely -- if I'm taking them out to shoot, I'll grease where required at that time, and then re-oil with G96 CLP post cleaning for corrosion-resistant storage), and use RemOil for general or speed cleaning or flushing or initial ownership of recreational guns/new to me used or surplus -- and I choose RemOil due to its decent cost and general availability.  I've gotten away from WD40 for gun cleaning except for when removing storage greases or oxidized/gummy oils.

But Slip's oil and thick oil/EWL/EWL30 are what I primarily use for gun oil on serious use guns.  It also ensures comparability w/ Slip's grease in the event say I'm oiling an AR hammer or trigger pin that I used Slip's grease on during original install. 
And if you're in a super-cold area then you may lean more towards oil than grease -- I'm in Central Texas where we get weeks each year of 100*+ heat versus just a couple days each year that stay below freezing (and usually just freezing temps overnight).

Basically, I think firearms are expensive enough and important enough to use lubricants made for them -- for me, it's no different than running the right weight oil in a vehicle (just using gun oil) and then also upgrading to synthetic/premium oil to maximize the engine's lifespan (why I generally use premium gun lubricants instead of just the cheapest).

Can you get by with auto oil, atf, and auto grease -- yes.  But I'm not a third-world soldier or guerrilla fighter with those as my only options...
« Last Edit: December 04, 2022, 02:59:24 AM by RSR »

Offline MeatAxe

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Re: 3,000 rds. in Czech VZ: zero issues. Total count as of today.
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2022, 07:11:37 AM »
Personally, I'd argue Slip 2000's EWG is superior to Mobil 1 synthetic as it's actually fully synthetic and designed for firearms -- and isn't red, potentially causing stains...

I like that grease stays in place and since it doesn't compress, provides a cushion in most instances that helps to tighten up firearm actions w/ no detriment on reliability/function.  Places that I can't get to with grease, like pin pivot points, I'll use oil, but anything I can access without too much disassembly I generally just grease. 

I do wipe down blued guns/barrels w/ G96's CLP especially for storage after handling (and generally use it exclusively for lubricant in older firearms I shoot rarely -- if I'm taking them out to shoot, I'll grease where required at that time, and then re-oil with G96 CLP post cleaning for corrosion-resistant storage), and use RemOil for general or speed cleaning or flushing or initial ownership of recreational guns/new to me used or surplus -- and I choose RemOil due to its decent cost and general availability.  I've gotten away from WD40 for gun cleaning except for when removing storage greases or oxidized/gummy oils.

But Slip's oil and thick oil/EWL/EWL30 are what I primarily use for gun oil on serious use guns.  It also ensures comparability w/ Slip's grease in the event say I'm oiling an AR hammer or trigger pin that I used Slip's grease on during original install. 
And if you're in a super-cold area then you may lean more towards oil than grease -- I'm in Central Texas where we get weeks each year of 100*+ heat versus just a couple days each year that stay below freezing (and usually just freezing temps overnight).


+1 on the Slip 2000 products - especially the grease. It stays where you put it and actually seems to repel dirt and fouling. One container goes a long way.

Whatever you do, DO NOT use “Frog Lube” — that crap is made primarily of coconut oil, and after a time will go rancid and turn into thick brown sludge, jamming up your weapon. They should call it “Snake Oil.”
« Last Edit: December 08, 2022, 12:12:39 PM by MeatAxe »

Offline RSR

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Re: 3,000 rds. in Czech VZ: zero issues. Total count as of today.
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2022, 07:41:04 AM »
+1 on the Slip 2000 products - especially the grease. It stays where you put it and actually seems to repel dirt and fouling. One container goes a long way.

Whatever you do, DO NOT use “Frog Lube” — that crap is made primarily of coconut oil, and after a time will turn into thick brown sludge, jamming up your weapon. They should call it “Snake Oil.”

WD40 and many other oil-based products that do the same thing -- it's oxidization I believe, and they get thicker and tacky. 

Yes, I find slip lubricants allow you to wipe them and crud off and just reapply lube for the most part, which is why I lube w/ Slip 2000 generously -- it makes cleanup a breeze.  Wipe off and then reapply.  Repeat next session.

And IIRC, Slip's carbon cleaner is water-based -- haven't used but something to be aware of.  Can probably use Simple Green more cheaply and for similar performance.  I've also not used Slip's degreaser...  They may have add'l products now I'm not aware of.  Haven't checked their website in a couple years now.

Offline Laufer

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Re: 3,000 rds. in Czech VZ: zero issues. Total count as of today.
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2022, 02:30:25 PM »
Very interesting summaries by you guys.

Small sidenote:
I tried some Seal One about four years ago. Very good lubricity- and somewhat thick “liquid”.

But—— the bottle was left in my hot car for about a month.
It was then a Runny liquid and after being in an air conditioned room for days, Never returned to its thicker form.

I removed it from several guns and immed.  Switched to Ballistol.

 ;)Seal is related to Frog Lube, so be aware. Weird that I Never read about Seal One…strange.

Offline sboone

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Re: 3,000 rds. in Czech VZ: zero issues. Total count as of today.
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2022, 04:08:34 PM »
Can confirm that the gun can go for a pretty sizeable round count without needing cleaned.  I shoot golden tiger almost exclusively and put 3 cases through my D technik VZ58.  Sometime after cracking into the 2nd case, my gun went down.  There was enough purple primer sealant inside the gun that the striker couldn't reset for some reason.  The inside of the gun and components was totally purple.  Clean every 500 rounds  ;D

Offline RSR

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Re: 3,000 rds. in Czech VZ: zero issues. Total count as of today.
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2022, 09:15:15 PM »
Very interesting summaries by you guys.

Small sidenote:
I tried some Seal One about four years ago. Very good lubricity- and somewhat thick “liquid”.

But—— the bottle was left in my hot car for about a month.
It was then a Runny liquid and after being in an air conditioned room for days, Never returned to its thicker form.

I removed it from several guns and immed.  Switched to Ballistol.

 ;)Seal is related to Frog Lube, so be aware. Weird that I Never read about Seal One…strange.

Seal One is known to get thick and bind up firearms in cold weather.  It's also known to turn to a liquid more quickly than froglube upon just the heat of one's hand. 

My advice (and do this at your own risk) is bare minimum put the lube in your fridge and/or freezer to check viscosity (roughly equivalent to the coldest your locale regularly gets).  If you have a range/safe shooting setup on your property, throw your whole firearm in the same and test while at that temp.  If your gun malfunctions when it didn't at higher temps, then you know you need a different lube. 

The last I paid attention to/had any curiosity Re: Seal 1 was back when this article/analysis was released around the same time folks were waking up to Froglube being snakeoil (think blogger might have gotten sued over it by one of these companies IIRC): https://www.vuurwapenblog.com/general-opinion/lies-errors-and-omissions/froglube-tracklube-and-seal1-laboratory-analysis/

Offline Laufer

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Re: 3,000 rds. in Czech VZ: zero issues. Total count as of today.
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2022, 09:42:05 AM »
RSR:
 About Seal One, what seems rather strange is how few Non-commercial “reviews” describe it , both on Google articles…but also on Youtube. Private reviewers are very scarce.

Maybe a ton of negative stories spread, but I’ve not noticed them either.
It’s  as if almost any negative review is somehow Suppressed . And that’s not possible.

I politely  E-mailed the company about it—-No Response, none at all….

Again, when my Seal turned to a Runny Liquid, I immediately converted to Ballistol——

Offline Laufer

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Re: 3,000 rds. in Czech VZ: zero issues. Total count as of today.
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2022, 04:03:31 AM »
I forget to mention that we are a 12-minute drive from the Huge private gun club in Lakeland TN.

If my guns were Only to be cleaned internally  for a tentative, imminent  “long-term” storage, they would never undergo internal cleaning. Each of them is used pretty often.

Offline RSR

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Re: 3,000 rds. in Czech VZ: zero issues. Total count as of today.
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2022, 12:43:15 AM »
RSR:
 About Seal One, what seems rather strange is how few Non-commercial “reviews” describe it , both on Google articles…but also on Youtube. Private reviewers are very scarce.

Maybe a ton of negative stories spread, but I’ve not noticed them either.
It’s  as if almost any negative review is somehow Suppressed . And that’s not possible.

I politely  E-mailed the company about it—-No Response, none at all….

Again, when my Seal turned to a Runny Liquid, I immediately converted to Ballistol——

Ballistol isn't a bad lubricant, but it's primarily used by black powder shooters as well as Canadians with access to cheap corrosive Norinco ammo since it neutralizes the corrosion...

But similar to lubriplate, it's an over 100 year old formula.  In Ballistol's case, it's primarily medicinal mineral oil w/ some vegetable oil (almost certainly rapeseed/canola oil -- rapeseed was an industrial lubricant before being used for foodstuffs and rebranded "canola"). 

So as a general purpose household lube, I'd place Ballistol as superior to WD40, but still with a lot to be desired versus firearm-specific options.