Author Topic: Would you use a magnum primer with W231 or N340 in .357 Magnum rounds?  (Read 3683 times)

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Offline Philintheblanks

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I have some 158gn SWCs I'd like to load in .357 cases for fairly light target loads to compare W231 and N340. Hodgdon's recipe calls for magnum primers, but Vihtavouri's does not. I have CCI spm, though not a bunch so if it's not necessary, I'd rather just use regular spp. I use both powders in other calibers and use standard spp but I suspect that Hodgdon's normal formula calls for magnum primers in every magnum caliber or perhaps case fill in the longer cartridge is the reason.

What's your take?

Kind regards,
Phil
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Offline WW Martin

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Re: Would you use a magnum primer with W231 or N340 in .357 Magnum rounds?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2023, 10:21:33 PM »
It's been years ago that I've loaded WW-231but I don't remember using magnum primers with any loads. The ball powders 296/H110 needed them for the nasty stuff. I loaded most of my pistol rounds with 231. Like the smell of it burning, I never cared for the smell of Unique.

Bill

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: Would you use a magnum primer with W231 or N340 in .357 Magnum rounds?
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2023, 05:36:05 AM »
Unless you are loading full power magnums with heavy charges I see no need for a magnum primer. SPP should do just fine.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Would you use a magnum primer with W231 or N340 in .357 Magnum rounds?
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2023, 11:47:38 AM »
I have some 158gn SWCs I'd like to load in .357 cases for fairly light target loads to compare W231 and N340. Hodgdon's recipe calls for magnum primers, but Vihtavouri's does not. I have CCI spm, though not a bunch so if it's not necessary, I'd rather just use regular spp. I use both powders in other calibers and use standard spp but I suspect that Hodgdon's normal formula calls for magnum primers in every magnum caliber or perhaps case fill in the longer cartridge is the reason.


• Use 38Special brass, standard primers, 158gr bullets, and 4.0gr of W231. It's a fun, accurate load for 38 or 357 revolvers.

• As mentioned, generally we only use magnum primers when the powder calls for it. Many confuse "357 magnum" with the need for magnum primers. H110/W296 does require mag primers.

• In this case, with the presence of the cavernous 357 brass and the light load of W231, I believe Hodgdon was worried about the load becoming "position sensitive". That's a problem created by how the powder is dispersed in a poorly filled revolver case. As the cartoon below tries to show, you can actually get different chrono readings based on whether you point the gun up or down before firing.



This is one reason you never hear about people using TightGroup in 38Spcl. You'll get the same effect because the "case fill" is terrible.

Anyway, Hodgdon must be using the hotter ignition capability of the magnum primer to offset poor powder dispersion inside the large volume 357M brass. So I assume the issue is the powder position, but it's definitely not igniting the W231.


• • You can use the N340, certainly, but it's sort of a waste in plinking or practice ammo. N340 is excellent stuff and has flash suppressant. The flash suppressant means its better use is in self defense ammo. Use it in 9mm to get above 1200fps, or in 10Auto or 357M for a faster, smoother, far more accurate loads.

And N340 does not require a magnum primer... if used with proper case fill.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2023, 11:58:58 AM by Wobbly »
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Offline Philintheblanks

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Re: Would you use a magnum primer with W231 or N340 in .357 Magnum rounds?
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2023, 11:40:25 AM »
This is more in the lines of an experiment rather than a search for a target load. I have a couple hundred .357 cases and wanted to try loading them to low levels. I shoot lots of 148 BNWCs over 2.7gn WST after trying WST, Bullseye, W231 and N320.

I didn't figure that magnum primers were required but, in the interest of safety, I wanted to some informed input. I maintain that this forum is better than any other I've seen because of the collective knowledge and genuine interest in helping fellow members.

Wobbly, your points about position sensitivity and using N340 for SD loads are well-taken. When I dropped the first charge of W231, I looked inside the case and thought, "I'm sure I put some powder in here somewhere. Where'd it go?" As I do with my wadcutter loads, I'll tilt the muzzle up before each shot to move the powder rearwards. About the N340, I did a test last week using 125gn XTPs I received for Christmas over Silhouette, AA 5, and N340 in .38 spl. cases from my M60 2" at 7 yds. Accuracy with Silhouette and AA 5 were about what I expected from a snubnose. Not good. But 6.4gn gave me 4" groups. I was very pleasantly surprised. So I will save my N340 for those loads and perhaps try some heavier SD bullets.

Thanks very much for the responses!
Kind regards,
Phil
CZ 75B
CZ 97B
Sig P210
Ruger SR1911 Competition - .45 ACP
Ruger MK IV Target

Want to correspond with reloaders in Texas

Offline SoCal

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Re: Would you use a magnum primer with W231 or N340 in .357 Magnum rounds?
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2023, 01:33:17 PM »
My own experience with light loads in .357 cases was terrible SD.  I think this goes back to Wobbly's post, too much room and to little powder  If you want to experiment shoot a cylinder but first point the gun up and give it a shake then the next group do the opposite.  Be interesting to see if there is any difference in chrono speeds and SD.
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Offline Philintheblanks

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Re: Would you use a magnum primer with W231 or N340 in .357 Magnum rounds?
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2023, 04:10:16 PM »
My own experience with light loads in .357 cases was terrible SD.  I think this goes back to Wobbly's post, too much room and to little powder  If you want to experiment shoot a cylinder but first point the gun up and give it a shake then the next group do the opposite.  Be interesting to see if there is any difference in chrono speeds and SD.

I am certain you're right about powder position. Although I haven't personally experienced it, I've read many an article mentioning the differences in velocity of lightly-loaded cartridges being pointed up or down before firing. And I also agree with both you and Wobbly. As I mentioned, this is only an experiment. I have the components and time, especially since I've been waiting three months for my .45 ACP swc boolits to arrive.
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CZ 97B
Sig P210
Ruger SR1911 Competition - .45 ACP
Ruger MK IV Target

Want to correspond with reloaders in Texas

Offline noylj

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Re: Would you use a magnum primer with W231 or N340 in .357 Magnum rounds?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2023, 02:54:27 PM »
Not if I have regular primers available.
From my experience, magnum primers with standard pistol powders open up groups.
Likewise, maybe from poor ignition, standard primers with real magnum powders cause more variation in velocity and groups open up.
Feel free to try in your gun(s) and see what you find

Offline timetofly

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A bit off topic, but I like using Nosler load data since they give a case fill   percentage.  It comes in handy quite often.

https://www.nosler.com/357-magnum
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