Looking into my spare barrel with borescope

[bubbas4570]

Or (and I am NOT picking on anyone here, I can be as anal retentive as possible sometimes) we quit worrying about the small stuff in the barrels if they are shooting good, accurate, and have no functional problems. 

I have seen many rifle barrels shoot through matches (buffalo rifle) with massive leading problems, only to be noticed afterwards during cleaning/inspection.....that taught me to overlook some of the things that I used to think mattered, and then I spend more time on other things that are actually more important in life.

[cracker57]

I have read on the web ( has to be true if its on the internet) that over cleaning ruins as many barrels as neglecting your barrel..

[RSR]

I have read on the web ( has to be true if its on the internet) that over cleaning ruins as many barrels as neglecting your barrel..

Generally speaking and per my understanding, over-cleaning ruins more barrels, especially if you're speaking to accuracy and damaging the crown...

[Joe L]

The problem with under-cleaning is developing corrosion and pitting due to leaving deposits in the barrel.  I've done that on my P-09, but without a measurable impact on accuracy so far.  I've swung over to the over cleaning regimen now.   If I ruin a barrel, I'll let you all know.

Joe L

[Rcher]

I give up, folks. Even after soaking in FreeAll for 2 days, cleaning with bronze brush, and polishing with JB paste, it looks like that:

https://youtu.be/4j5IPzWVUKg


I don't really know what is on my grooves.

[M1A4ME]

It's not "over cleaning" that's harmful.  It's incorrect cleaning methods.  Why is the cleaning rod damaging the lands?  You're doing it wrong.

I have, over the years, used a small dental pick to reach into the barrel and attempt to hook a piece of crud in the grooves of the barrel and pop it loose.  If a dental pick won't damage my teeth the way the techs. drag and scrape around twice a year I figure it won't damage the metal in a groove of the barrel.  If the stuff pops loose I figure it shouldn't have been in there.  If it's damage from the process of making the lands/grooves then it can stay.

[RSR]

It's not "over cleaning" that's harmful.  It's incorrect cleaning methods.  Why is the cleaning rod damaging the lands?  You're doing it wrong.

I have, over the years, used a small dental pick to reach into the barrel and attempt to hook a piece of crud in the grooves of the barrel and pop it loose.  If a dental pick won't damage my teeth the way the techs. drag and scrape around twice a year I figure it won't damage the metal in a groove of the barrel.  If the stuff pops loose I figure it shouldn't have been in there.  If it's damage from the process of making the lands/grooves then it can stay.

Many dentists globally now believe US dentists overclean and do unnecessary damage to our teeth/their enamel in that process...  Why polishing is increasingly being considered a cosmetic procedure instead of a necessary maintenance one. 

Mens whiskers (with strength similar to copper wire) dull and damage steel razor blades.

The more you clean beyond mimimum you require equals increased risk of causing damage each time you do additional cleaning functions on the barrel, that is each push or draw of your cleaning rod beyond minimum required...

That said, my understanding is that flat base bullets are less impacted by damage to the barrel/muzzle crown, so overcleaning damage should hypothetically be less of a concern with pistols than rifles that more commonly shoot boattail bullets.

[M1A4ME]

And pistols don't have nearly the same pressure/temperatures at the muzzle as rifles. 

A lot of people shot lead bullets through their pistols at even lower pressures/temperatures.

How many cotton patches with bore solvent at room temperature does it take to equal one rifle bullet at 3,000 fps, 55,000 psi on one end of the barrel and 10 to 12,000 psi on the muzzle end of the barrel and the temperature created by one round, let alone 10 rounds.

Never measured a muzzle end of the barrel after one round but I've seen rifles that would heat up the barrel enough after two rounds to start moving POI on the third round, more on the forth round and even more on the fifth round.  After 10 rounds an M1 or M1A will be running just over 280 F at the muzzle end of the barrel on the outside.  Ten rounds over 2 minutes.

Everything wears.  The only damaged barrels (and they still shoot) I've got are due to neglect.  They look like old sewer pipes inside.

If you want to be happy with some barrels you need to be unaware of what they look like inside and just shoot them and clean them as you see fit.  Do not look down them with a bore scope.  My old P07, to the naked eye and a bright light looks like a polished mirror.  A couple of patches/solvent/dry patches and it's shiny as can be after a range session.  Even lead seems to wipe right out with no brushing required.  Look down it with a bore scope and it's butt ugly.  Pits, gouges, scrapes, discolored spots, etc. 

[tdogg]

I recently purchased a Teslong borescope for my new hunting rig, 7PRC Ridgeline FFT ($$$).  I suspected a hard carbon ring and found it.  The borescope was invalueable in identifying and rectifying the issue.  Unfortunately, I haven't found the combination to get it to shoot less than 1 MOA but the bore is clean.  The lands/grooves are smooth and appear very uniform.  I will eventually find a load that the gun likes.

Compare that to my son's Savage Hunter 110 ($) that just shoots everything well.  I have a reduced recoil load using VMax 120gr and H4895 that shoots 1/2 MOA at 100 yds.  It is the perfect load for a new shooter as the rifle is so soft recoiling and very accurate (builds confidence).  If you look in that bore you would be shocked how poorly the lands/grooves look.  There is significant chatter marks and it is very rough as compared to the Ridgeline.  I couldn't believe how bad it looked knowing how well the rifle shoots.

If you understand what you are looking at, the borescope can help target cleaning needed.  If it is clean and it shoots well, I wouldn't worry about the appearance.  If it is clean and doesn't shoot, then you either haven't found the combination it likes or it is a dud.  Harping on the finish generally isn't going to improve how it shoots.

Cheers,
Toby

[tdogg]

Oh and if your barrel is made from stainless and you have hard carbon buildup, the best solvent is CLR hands down.  It will remove hard carbon build up in minutes vs hours.  Literally removed my hard carbon ring in about 1 minute of scrubbing with a patch over a brush.  That same hard carbon ring took hours with Iosso bore paste using the same/similar procedure.

I've heard that it isn't good for carbon steels so use at your own risk!  CLR confirmed that it is safe for chromoly and stainless steels.

Cheers,
Toby