One for the Wobbles and Company

[armoredman]

Follow my logic and see where I fail.
Loading 5.56mm/.223 Remington with 55 grain bullets with a recommended powder, H-335, with a mistakenly too low load of 22.5 grains, I record a velocity 10 feet from the muzzle of 2427 FPS, with 100 percent functioning. OK, there's the baseline.
I wanted to try AA#1680 in the caliber, which Alliant does not publish data for...but I have a lot of AA#1680, and not so much H-335. So, they gave me starting data, 17.9 up to 21 grains max.

When I was at the range, I grabbed the first of the three tester baggies, just happened that the first bag was 18.4 grain 1680.

This load performed terribly, with not enough gas pressure to operate the bolt correctly. However, I recorded a 5 shot average of 2580 FPS. Now my fevered little reptile brain thinks that perhaps the powder is too fast, that it's peak is too quick to carry over gas pressure down the bore to reliably operate the bolt, but gives a mighty SHOVE to the bullet at starting. I am wondering if I keep going up, to achieve reliable operating speeds, I may come closer to exceeding the safety margins with a high sharp peak pressure. I wouldn't mind using this powder, as I do have a lot of it, but not if it has the potential to cause problems.

Thoughts?

[jwc007]

If you are talking about exceeding the Manufacturers maximum recommended powder levels, my answer is NO.  They might be conservative, then again maybe not.  The only educated way of understanding what you are really dealing with would be to use a Ballistics Calculator Program such as "Quickloads" or "Load from a Disk".

The problem with propellant pressure curves is that they are not always gradual and can and do abruptly spike upwards.  Not something I would chance.  If you have other powders on hand, consider those.  If you have some slower powders on hand you can also consider some heavier bullets for that short Vz58 barrel.

Note sometimes you can also get H335 as Mil-Surp WC844 very reasonably.  Also for heavier Bullets consider BLC-2, which is sold as Mil-Surp WC846.  AA#2460 is also good with heavier bullets.

[Wobbly]

I wanted to try AA#1680 in the caliber, which Alliant does not publish data for...

Well, right off, Alliant never does publish load data for Accurate Arms powders.

I hope that's a typo, but I'll mention it just to make sure.


As to the load itself, I'd stop while you're ahead. 1680 is only listed for one rifle, and that's the bolt action 22 Hornet with 35-45gr bullets. Everything else is a large bore handgun, so this powder is really too fast. It might have application in a bolt action 223, IF you were shooting 40gr bullets.

Now plenty of very fast powders are used for fun and low key practice in rifles (Red Dot and Trail Boss come to mind), but those pressures are documented and understood. And they also do not operate any gas actions. They simply go 'bloop' and put the bullet out about 50 yards. I get the feeling that's not what you want.

If you want to continue, then I'd start with a call to Accurate Arms on Monday and ask for load data. You might also look around for some 40gr bullets this weekend.

If you simply want to shoot your 223 cheaply, here are some ideas...
? A place called "Pat's Reloading" sells surplus Mil powders
? Check out the Accurate "data powders" at http://www.accuratepowder.com/load-data/datapowder/
? Per shot, Ramshot TAC is the cheapest commercial powder I know

Stay safe. 

[Bret]

AA1680 is the powder for 22Hornet and 7.62x39.  It's way too fast for 223Rem.  Don't let cheapness damage your gun or, worse yet, you.  The way I look at it you have a perfect excuse to buy more powder.

[armoredman]

Not an excuse, just trying to save money, but trust me, this very difficult to find rifle isn't going to get damaged by me if I can help it! Unfortunately, I live in the toolies, so everything has to be trucked in meaning hazmat fees, and those are skyrocketing along with fuel costs. I'll just use op the H-335 and H-4895 I have, then park the .223 until I can get some more sometime.

I don't know why I typed Alliant, must have been thinking of something else.

1680 is only listed for one rifle, and that's the bolt action 22 Hornet with 35-45gr bullets.

Wobbly, I've been using 1680 in 7.62x39mm for years, great in that fat cartridge.  Accurate is starting to expand their 7.62x39mm data, too, which is nice.

[Wobbly]

Wobbly, I've been using 1680 in 7.62x39mm for years, great in that fat cartridge.  Accurate is starting to expand their 7.62x39mm data, too, which is nice.

Acknowledged; that's not the only load. Still 1680 seems to be too slow for shotguns and too fast for most rifles. It's a niche powder for a couple of rifles and huge hand cannons. Still there are powders that better bridge between 7.62x39 to 223, if that's your goal.

If your location or circumstances make for a hardship, then there must be a local web page for hunters and shooters or a nearby gun club where you can do a FTF trade with someone else. Someone with a 500 S&W is dying to get that powder.

 

[armoredman]

Not giving it up, still loading a bunch for 7.62x39mm. I have a connection or two with Phoenix, close to good gunshops, just hard to meet them nowadays.

[ReloaderFred]

One of the most accurate powders I've found with the 55 gr. bullet in the .223 is Winchester 748.  Out of either of my AR-15's, or my Remington heavy barrel varminter, this combination is very, very accurate, and the burn rate is correct for gas operated rifles.

Using Winchester 748 and pulled 55 gr. bullets, I've got a target that I shot many years ago from my Varminter that has 5 shots at 200 yards into 5/8".  The conditions were perfect at the time, and I was using the pulled bullets to foul the bore of the rifle before I really got serious about shooting for a group.  Needless to say, that was as good as it got.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[armoredman]

I doubt I'll be THAT accurate!:) We'll see, though.