Do not buy a CZ or Mak from J&G Sales

[lawrnk]

I ordered a CZ-52 pistol from them on Monday. I faxed the FFL and got confirmation. The said they never got it. Called and they said it would ship Tuesday. Got another email on Monday that they did not get the FFL, faxed again. They never got it. Fax and emailed today, and a pre-pubecent sounding boy answered and said we can't get it to you until Monday. 26 bucks for overnight shipping, and you are lucky to get it in a week. I told them where to go, and will order elsewhere from now on.

jgsales.com

[Wallew]

OK, let me help you out here.  NO, I don't work for J&G sales.

I am kind of surprised at your statement.  Any FFL HOLDER should know that you CAN NOT fax a copy of the FFL to J&G.  It MUST be mailed.  IT MUST BE SIGNED IN INK BY THE FFL HOLDER.

Your FFL holder should have known this.

Plus, if J&G actually accepted a faxed copy of an FFL and then actually shipped a firearm to that FFL holder, THEY COULD LOSE THEIR LICENSE.

The same applies to C&R licenses issued by the BATF.

So don't blame J&G.

Hope that helps

[macoshark]

I have a 03 FFL (C&R) it must be mailed to the vendor, But I think a reg FFL can be faxed.

maco

[wolfshell]

Nope, Federal ATF regulations/law requires a FFL copy signed in ink by an authorized (meaning listed with the ATF under that liscence) person to be mailed-as in sent physicaly-to the other dealer.  Any dealer who attempts to use a FAXed copy, or a copy with the signiture photocopied as well, will lose their liscence for at least a few years, if not permanantly.  This is done because an ink signiture is much better for legal reasons and to help avoid false FFL's being used.

[jhooten]

As of 1 Sep they can be faxed, I'm told.

[Walt-Sherrill]

Ink-signed copies are a throw-back to the old days.  Who actually compares signatures?  The ATF field agent certainly can't, when he or she is doing an audit at the FFL's shop.

(Banks have signature cards -- the FFL doesn't.  You don't send THEM an ink-signed copy when you get your license, and they send you a blank FFL, which you photocopy and sign each time you use it...  I don't think they'd know a real signature from a faked one...)

The big issue is whether the gun actually was shipped to an actual FFL, and that can be determined by the FFL Number (which can be verified on the ATF Quick Check website.) which will show you the shipping address of the business.

[Otto N Sure]

The ATF has allowed faxed FFL's for well over a year!  The only requirement is that they are legible at the other end.  The ATF then says that the receiver should verify against the ATF's FFL eZ check.

Otto

[tsellati]

Not to sound too crass, but where have you guys been hiding!!!  BATFE regulations now state that electronic transmission of a signed federal firearms license (that means via facsimile or email transmission of a scanned image) is allowable.  This has been the case for some time now.

This does not, however, mean that an individual or company must accept an ffl by such means.  An individual or company can still demand that a hard copy signed in non-black ink be submitted before they initiate a firearms transfer.  And, unfortunately, you have no recourse (other than purchasing elsewhere) if they will not accept your ffl any other way.

Hope this clarifies the matter for you.

Tim

P.S. - Otto, my message obviously does not apply to you.  You merely type faster than I do and obviously you have not been hiding, ha, ha, ha.

[Otto N Sure]

tsellati!  Yep, I've been accused of being a bit quick on the trigger!!

Otto

[Wallew]

A quick call to the local BATF proves this statement true.  The guy said that the new FFL licenses even have a 'larger box' for the printed FFL number so it is more easily readable.

Having said all that, the caveat still exists that ANY FFL holder CAN LEGALLY REFUSE to accept a faxed copy.

So, two step forward, one step back.

[czechmate82]

I know how much J&G sucks. I ordered from them awhile back, and never will again. I ordered, among other things, a spare CZ-52 magazine (used) and an SKS sling (said to be in "good" condition). My order was promptly shipped and arrived at my door (no problems with their shipping dept). When I opened the box, I found the CZ-52 magazine to be very finish worn. Now, I know I ordered "used", but not put out to pasture. To me, good means the finish is all there, with maybe some scratches. So, I wasn't very happy, but couldn't really complain, since there's no way to justify "good." Then I looked at the SKS sling...ok, now I was hot...they sent a literally "rotting" sling...it was so musty and moldy that I had to take it out of the box with tongs. Ok, now I'm upset. So I emailed their customer service line to complain (I didn't send it back, due to the shipping being way over the cost of the sling) and at least get an answer to why they shipped my that piece of crap. Never got a response...nothing. Not even a sorry. Well, screw you J&G Sales...you'll get no more business from me...Enough ranting from me...I'm done now.

[wolfshell]

My bad on the faxed FFL, but its been about a year and a half since I worked full time in a gun shop, and none of the newsletters that i still get at home said anything about that.  Of course, I called the shop that I worked at and apparently they are still requiring the signed copy via mail.

[brigadier]

Quote:I know how much J&G sucks. I ordered from them awhile back, and never will again. I ordered, among other things, a spare CZ-52 magazine (used) and an SKS sling (said to be in "good" condition). My order was promptly shipped and arrived at my door (no problems with their shipping dept). When I opened the box, I found the CZ-52 magazine to be very finish worn. Now, I know I ordered "used", but not put out to pasture. To me, good means the finish is all there, with maybe some scratches. So, I wasn't very happy, but couldn't really complain, since there's no way to justify "good." Then I looked at the SKS sling...ok, now I was hot...they sent a literally "rotting" sling...it was so musty and moldy that I had to take it out of the box with tongs. Ok, now I'm upset. So I emailed their customer service line to complain (I didn't send it back, due to the shipping being way over the cost of the sling) and at least get an answer to why they shipped my that piece of crap. Never got a response...nothing. Not even a sorry. Well, screw you J&G Sales...you'll get no more business from me...Enough ranting from me...I'm done now.

Well, it's been a while since I've done business with them but when I have, it's been very good. Got products in good condition and shipped promptly. If you were ordering from the end of a supplement, then it may make sense that you get something less then great. The alternative is nothing at all. Regarding failure to return your call, well, I can imagine J&G would be like that since everyone is. It drives me nuts that leaving a message with anyone, good or bad, professional or not is a waste of time. People around here are always shocked to find that I actually return calls as soon as I get them. Neglecting the answering machine IS a bad thing. Unfortunately, people who neglect it seam to be much more common then those who don't. Here are a list of companies I do business with. They are divided by those who return calls and those who do not:

DO NOT return calls:

CDNN Investments
Numrich
Smith and Wesson
Hogue
J&G Sales (yes, I have left messages with them before.
SARCO Inc.
Compasseco
Eagle Loan
Harbor Freight
Eagle
Double Tap Ammunition

Companies who occasionally return calls:

Makarov.com
Checkmate Industries Inc.
Old Sacramento Armory
KT Ordnance

Companies who return calls just about every time:

Angel Sword/Metal Science
AT&T
Lulu


As you can see, it's usually only the empires and occasional mom and pop businesses who you can at all depend on for good customer service communication while you can pretty much forget about it with the medium and large businesses who tend to be very active without a firm system in place dedicated strictly to customer service, so don't get too wigged out about it.