Sig brace kit is up and for sale

[armoredman]

I am very interested in this one instead;
http://www.thordsencustoms.com/shop/AR-PISTOL/p/STANDARD-ARAK-PISTOL-CHEEK-REST-KIT-x4345533.htm

If the back of the fake buffer tube can be altered to open for more storage, like a milspec cleaning kit and such, that would be awesome for a long term camp firearm. I am also starting some chatting here and there with some hunting buddies on how well this might do for jackrabbit and coyote.

[Farside457]

My delivery date keeps getting pushed back  so much for 30 rounds of fun this weekend now I'm stuck with 20.

The struggle is real people the struggle is real

[Farside457]

I didn't think you could go hunting with "pistols"

[Danjoe]

Sure you can, most places have specific handgun seasons, and places that limit hunting with rifles make you hunt big game with a handgun or shotgun.  I think hunting jackrabbits with the evo would be a ton of fun, for coyotes, you must live somewhere that the 'yotes are a lot less skittish than here!

[DDNC]

I am very interested in this one instead;
http://www.thordsencustoms.com/shop/AR-PISTOL/p/STANDARD-ARAK-PISTOL-CHEEK-REST-KIT-x4345533.htm

It is interesting that they state it is ATF approved as a cheek piece for a pistol but not as a shouldering device?? If not attached to a standard stock which I'm not sure you can do ( you cannot) how pray tell, do you fit that to your cheek without it being shouldered???

[ccjcc81]

A buffer tube is not a stock.  At least, it's not on an AR platform rifle.

[RSR]

Yep.

Legally, the sig brace was approved as installed on the sig rifle it was first issued with.

The AR buffer tubes being installed onto non-ars are also a gray area despite them being "pistol tubes."  Legally IMO, you're in a much more defensible position if the weapon comes from the manufacturer with the pistol tube and brace installed, especially if that tube is not critical for the function of the weapon.  Why?  B/c ATF would have approved the entire weapon in that configuration as a pistol prior to import...  So you're clear on not "remaking" a weapon and running afoul of the law.  When you're adding the tube and brace on your own, it puts the liability on you, which is actually a pretty crappy position for a manufacturer to put customers in.  Even the tube itself for instance -- depending on ATF rulings that alone could put you in violation of the law (and I believe the thorsden kit was approved for AR pistols w/ that tube already in place, not for other weapons systems).

I believe all of this was covered previously in an earlier thread in this EVO forum however... 

And yes, whether a bare pistol buffer tube touching your shoulder is a stock is also a legal gray area right now with the latest atf rulings.  It truly is an unknown.  And for the thorsden -- we also don't whether touching shirt or outwear means shouldering or just touching firmly against the shoulder underneath clothing...   Or if the weapon recoils and the tube touches the shoulder -- is that remaking?  Or is it just when one begins firing with the tube to one's shoulder etc.   And once a weapon is shouldered however defined, legally per the ATF, it is forever an SBR.  If you don't have or don't file an SBR form prior to that point in time, anyone who owns or shoots the weapon from that point forward until a legal SBR is in place is breaking the law.

Basically, the latest ATF opinion has created a mess such that anyone trying to align the sights with anything less than full arm extension could run afoul of the law.  It's ridiculous and I don't anticipate it standing to judicial scrutiny for the exact reasons in the above paragraph...

[armoredman]

Well, I just watched a Scorpion review where the gentleman in question added the SIG Brace Adapter, and instead covered with a soft foam cover, and used it as a cheek rest. It seemed to work, and he was able to keep it in place.  I intend to do the same thing, to use the Thordsen Saddle as a cheek rest for my range time, and to carry spare batteries for the red dot I want to put on it. Also want to get a 9mm BoreSnake and store it in the SIC Brace Adapter. We can't call it a "buffer tube", for there is no buffer to tube.

[RSR]

Yep -- my understanding is that the AR pistol buffer tubes were approved for use as/on AR pistols...  Not for every weapon folks want to add a sig brace to... Not that I agree with it, but teh ATFs continued evolution there could interpret the AR pistol tube on a non-ar to be "remaking the weapon". 

And remember that the pistol definition is to be fired w/ one hand.  So the buffer tube for sight alignment would only be used for firing when holding the weapon w/ two hands...  So it's encroaching on the rifle definition in a different but similar way to the sig brace.   Again, not that I like or agree w/ any of the opinion garbage, but it's more risk than I'm willing to take on.  (And bear in mind there are a lot of "long" pistol buffer tubes and the like available too that also blur the lines...

And it'd be really great if CZ-USA sold the thing w/ ATF approved pistol buffer tubes in the first place.  Then non-issue, and thordsen tubes and the like can be installed w/o worry. 

And if CZ has an ATF approval letter for their buffer tubes, that'd be great to see too!

[RSR]

Here's why I reference the tube on non-ARs -- the broad-stroke redesign that allows the BATF to judge any "redesign" how they see fit -- and if you get in trouble, the burden is on you to prove that your intention was not to violate any of the gun laws in regards to NFA/SBR weapons.

Per the BATF in the sig braced letter:

Because the NFA defines both rifle and shotgun to include any ?weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder,? any person who redesigns a stabilizing brace for use as a shoulder stock makes a NFA firearm when attached to a pistol with a rifled barrel under 16 inches in length or a handgun with a smooth bore under 18 inches in length.
The GCA does not define the term ?redesign? and therefore ATF applies the common meaning. ?Redesign? is defined as ?to alter the appearance or function of.?

http://gunssavelives.net/gun-industry/breaking-11615-atf-issues-open-letter-declaring-the-shouldering-of-sig-brace-illegal/

[stuffgeek]

Ok - all the mags are gone now....
Do I order myself the buffer tube just incase I get an EVO?