Fine tuning the CZ-97 Trigger Pull for Bullseye--with range trip results

[Joe L]

I have 9 months and maybe 5,000 rounds through my 97B"E".  I ordered it with a 2.5-3 lb trigger, which is exactly what the pull was when delivered from CGW.  Problem is that I have to have a 3.5 lb minimum pull for centerfire bullseye.  I didn't check the rules before I ordered the gun.   

The other "want" I have is just the opposite of what most people want.  I wanted a little more sear travel before the hammer dropped.  I wanted some "creep", similar to what i have on my SIG P-226 guns (I rarely shoot them now).  I need to be able to put some pressure on the sear without the gun going off.  The hooks on the original CGW hammer were a little too short for me (but perfect for most people!).  The release was a little too "crisp" for my style of trigger control.

So, I bought a new CGW race hammer, installed it, and the result was some increase in sear engagement but I still had a pretty crisp trigger.  Next, I installed the stock firing pin safety block spring and this increased the pull a few more oz.  Next was a change in the hammer spring from the blue 13# to a new 15#.  Another increase.  Finally, above 3.5 lbs.   Going to the range and try it on Sunday.  These changes are subtle!  They would not have been of much interest to me two years ago.  But I've learned that getting your best results in precision pistol shooting is dependent on how tiny personal details work together. 

For me, trigger reach, grip shape, pull weight, and trigger pull "feel" are all significant details.  I'm just glad to have a bag of excellent parts to work with and enough money to be able to put together what I think I need.     

So, I won't know for sure if this is right until I shoot the gun in live fire.  Dry fire feels good.  This is fun.

Joe

[Tok36]

I have yet to encounter a situation were i have needed to increase a triggers pull weight, all in time.

Why do you think they set the rule at 3.5lbs?

Interesting post as always Joe.

[Joe L]

Tok36--I suppose the 3.5 lb minimum was from the 1911 service guns usually used for bullseye, but I don't really know the history.  I assume the idea was to keep people from building a 2 lb trigger race gun when the intention was to have a service pistol match.  I think.  For me, the 3.5 min pull is fine.  I can handle a 2-2.5 lb pull on the 22, but have never felt comfortable with that low of a pull weight on a centerfire gun.  Ideal for me is 3.0-3.3 lb, but I can adapt to a 3.5 lb plus a little. 

One can actually "steer" the gun a little with a heavier trigger, which is helpful in rapid fire strings especially.  Like I said, tiny details, tiny changes.  They add up.  If this works as well as I think, I will stick with the 97 and the Kadet through 2016.  One more match this year, Thanksgiving weekend.  Can't wait.   

If I shoot another 100 score target or two on Sunday, I'm going to say this was another tiny detail that helped, LOL.

Joe

[Joe L]

So, I tried the gun this morning.  I'm going to like it, but I didn't get off to a good start.  Here is a video.

https://youtu.be/QkpLT0_76Tc

Little details, little details.  After one gets a really good gun to start with, a 97B"E" from CGW.  Getting better with every little tweak.

Joe

[jdgray]

Well done sir!

[Rhino]

First group was suspect, I guess you had to settle in your groove. The second group on we're awesome.

[Joe L]

First group was suspect, I guess you had to settle in your groove. The second group on we're awesome.

Yep, I just couldn't settle down on the first group.  The trigger felt too different and the wind was gusty.  I shot much worse than I expected.  But this is what happens some times when one makes an assumed small change.  I think I had gotten so used to sneaking up on the lighter trigger that I actually jerked it to make it go off with the changes.  On the second target I did everything right for 9 rounds then apparently jerked the last shot high right.  I didn't even know I'd jerked it that bad.  When I walked up to the target, I thought I had shot 100!  Instead it was a 90.  But, the 9 good 10 ring shots convinced me this was going to work just fine, so I settled down and had much better trigger control on the last 20 rounds. 

This discipline is 80% mental. 

Joe 

[Rhino]

A friend of mine was on the police department shooting team back in the 70's, he told me of a match that took place in 45 degree weather and raining. He told me a competitor would say before he would break the shot "It ain't cold and the wind ain't blowin" my friend didn't share his opinions of the weather.😄 So remember "It ain't cold and the wind ain't blowin" while you're shooting.

[racoonbeast]

I know that this post is a couple of weeks old, but I will take a stab at answering why they might have a 3.5 lb trigger pull minimum. 1911's are probably the most numerous guns used for these matches. A 1911 trigger can only be taken down to 3.5 lbs with guaranteed safety and predictable function. I know that everyone knows of someone, or has themselves a 1911 that has a wonderful quarter pound trigger pull that has never been a problem, so there is no need to point this out to me. But, in gunsmithing circles, that is the rule. Has been for nearly a century.

[coolbox]

If you could install the Tanfoglio sear spring, you might well get to use the previous hammer again. It is heavier. I have one with me, I m too lazy to compare it with a new oem sear spring after installing them in one of my CZs to let you knwo the difference. What I can tell is that if you can install two sear springs in the sear by opening it up a bit (removing material), you would gain one full pound of weight. I did that in my TS (non fpb model). But then, the pre-B sear has space for 2 sear springs after removing some material. Not sure about the B sear.

[Joe L]

Coolbox--thanks for that advice.  I think I have the 97 trigger pull weight about right now, with the stock sear spring and a heavier hammer spring with the new, untouched CGW hammer.  Season is over so I am going back to the P-09 for a few weeks.  I've neglected it and it is too good of a gun to leave in the safe. 

Joe

[chaps]

Joe, I've been reading alot of your posts lately as I'm still moving forward on a 97B for bullseye, but would like to shoot it in CMP EIC Service Pistol as well, which has a 4# minimum pull - a full 1/2 pound more than NRA. How might you crack that nut?

[Joe L]

chaps, I would have you ask David at CGW.  Maybe try the stock trigger/sear at first and only drop the hammer spring weight a little and measure the pull. 

I'm still happy with mine at 3.5 with just the CGW hammer/sear and springs.  I would have to try the dual sear spring or something next to get it to 4. 

I don't think I am going to change anything more on mine in 2016, just shoot it.

Joe

[kappy]

Is this bullseye shooting at 50 ft, offhand? We've done something similar at my range with rimfire. I wouldn't mind bringing that discipline back.

[Joe L]

Is this bullseye shooting at 50 ft, offhand? We've done something similar at my range with rimfire. I wouldn't mind bringing that discipline back.

Kappy, I think you are describing the indoor match course of fire, which uses much smaller target scoring rings and 50 feet distance.  This target was shot outdoors, at 25 yards, single-hand, standing.  We also shoot at 50 yards slow fire, which is a 10 shots in 10 minutes course of fire.  We can shoot outdoors here nearly year round.  In the northern states, lots of clubs shoot indoors in the winter at the shorter ranges, I think.  I've never shot the short indoor matches. 

Joe