Author Topic: Recently purchased CZ-52 9mm  (Read 12416 times)

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Offline Thrdofmny

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Re: Recently purchased CZ-52 9mm
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2015, 11:33:28 AM »
We were in agreement the whole time! I figured it to be about the same, $4-600. I saw one for sale for $700 but thought that was too high. Not sure if it sold or not. No worries about the never shooting it thing either. I'm looking at local ranges right now.
Thanks again for the help. Your feedback turned me onto some new information I wouldn't have looked for otherwise. I'm still digging.

Offline slimjim

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Re: Recently purchased CZ-52 9mm
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2015, 01:12:49 PM »
And nobody has any Idea as to the Dots! But they are not hardness test since some slides had up to 18 dots and were refurbed only 1 time.

Offline Thrdofmny

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Re: Recently purchased CZ-52 9mm
« Reply #32 on: November 03, 2015, 01:23:27 PM »
I saw a post on Harrington's website talking about the dots. They have no significance or none that matters after manufacturing. They are surely not accuracy ratings or of the like. I purposefully didn't mention how many mine had because of it.
In reference to the information I posted about the barrels and some being redone by the Czechs and some being bored out to make it a 9mm, according to the markings, or lack thereof, mine would be from the bored out pile. Assuming that information is correct. Still more searching to be done on that, but it is starting to seem likely.

Offline slimjim

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Re: Recently purchased CZ-52 9mm
« Reply #33 on: November 03, 2015, 02:06:57 PM »
 Harrington is 100% wrong but  their belief was the standard for about the last 20 yrs!

Offline Thrdofmny

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Re: Recently purchased CZ-52 9mm
« Reply #34 on: November 03, 2015, 02:13:27 PM »
And  that's why I didn't post any information about the dots. No consensus. Accuracy, hardness, some internal manufacturer's mark. No agreement.

Offline lklawson

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Re: Recently purchased CZ-52 9mm
« Reply #35 on: November 03, 2015, 03:49:22 PM »
And  that's why I didn't post any information about the dots. No consensus. Accuracy, hardness, some internal manufacturer's mark. No agreement.
It's probably some Czech playing an elaborate practical joke.  He and his buddies randomly pin-punched them and have been laughing their butts off at us.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
The Cheapskate's Guide to Gun Cleaning and Maintenance - "You shouldn't have to spend thousands of dollars on expensive gun cleaning an maintenance products. Find out ho

Offline Thrdofmny

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Re: Recently purchased CZ-52 9mm
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2015, 12:37:45 PM »
This is interesting. Found on another old post. Some of it matches with what we think we know and some is a little different or new.


All Vz.52 pistols that went through the Czech government rebuild process that needed refinishing were refinish in grey phosphate - there were no Czech military black phosphate or blued Vz.52?s.

There were no Vz.52?s produced in 9x19 Parabellum, nor was the Vz.52 ever used by the Czech police.

For those interested, here is a bit of history?

Following World War Two the Czechs found themselves without an acceptable military sidearm. They began development of a sidearm, and in the interim used whatever pistols were available (including the Vz.24, Vz.27, Vz.38, and even the Walther P.38 under the nomenclature "Vz.46"). The new pistol was to be chambered for the 9 mm Parabellum cartridge.
In 1948 Ceska Zbrojovka submitted the CZ 482 chambered for the M48 9 mm Parabellum cartridge, and this pistol seemed to hold promise. Perceived deficiencies were noted and solved by Ceska Zbrojovka, resulting in the CZ 491 (also chambered for the M48 9 mm Parabellum cartridge). However by this point in time the Czech Republic had essentially been taken over by a Socialist government and that government was under great pressure from the Soviet Union to adopt the Soviet M30 7.62x25 pistol cartridge as the Czech standard pistol/sub-machinegun cartridge. Ceska Zbrojovka was directed to redesign the CZ 491 to fire the Soviet M30 cartridge and did so during the period 1950 - 1952, resulting in the CZ 513. The CZ 513 was adopted in 1952 as the Vz.52.

There is no such thing as a ?CZ 52? pistol. This is a name made up by the importers, and combines the ?CZ? from the factory designation of this pistol (?CZ 513?) with the year designator from the military designation for this pistol (?Vz.52?) to create a historically meaningless name.

The Vz.52 was not a very satisfactory service pistol. It turned out to be rather delicate, and began to literally fall apart during normal (peace-time!) usage. Consequently, an ongoing inspection and overhaul process was begun, with Vz.52 pistol being regularly inspected and repaired as needed. The most common repair was the staking of pins in place to prevent their 'walking' out of the pistol.

Overhauled pistols were usually, but not always, marked to indicate they had been overhauled. This mark was originally a 'VOZ' (Vojensky Opravarensky Zavod - Military Repair Plant) with or without an overhaul year. Later this stamp was changed to 'VOP' (Vojensky Opravarensky Podnik - Military Repair Enterprise).

The usage of the acronym 'VOP' has caused some confusion, as this same acronym has been used by Czech military intelligence (VOP - Vojenske Obranne Zpravodajstvi), but this is pure happenstance - there is no connection between the VOP stamp on Vz.52 pistols and Czech military intelligence.

Moving on to other things?

The dots found on the top of the slides of most Vz.52 pistols are, as another poster has pointed out, marks left over from hardness testing. They have no significance.

The Lion/Date found on some Vz.52?s is the Czech commercial proof. This one takes a bit of background.

The Czechs released the vast majority of their stocks of Vz.52 pistols onto the surplus market back in the early 1990's. These pistols were unaltered Vz.52's - meaning they retained their original grey parkerizing, were chambered for the 7.52x25 Tokarev cartridge, and had only military markings.

The US market was quickly glutted with these pistols, and it became near impossible for the importers to sell them to distributors. In an attempt to solve this problem the importers (mostly Century Arms International) contracted to have those pistols with the least original finish refinished. Two different finishes were used; black parkerizing and bluing. Those pistol that were blued were usually excessively buffed, resulting the removal or near removal of the original markings.
The refinishing was at first done here in the US, and later in the Czech Republic as the labor cost there was much less. Some of the Vz.52's were refinished at Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka of Brno facility, and may be found so marked.

The refinishing helps sales for a while, but was not a permanent solution to sagging sales. The next solution the importers tried to boost sales was the inclusion of a 9x19 Parabellum barrel with each pistol. These 9x19 barrels were originally 7.62x25, and were converted in the Czech Republic to 9x19. Converted barrels intended for pistols to be sold in the US were not re-proofed, and may be found with military circle 'T' proof marks. Barrels intended for use on pistols sold in Europe were re-proofed commercially, and will have the stamp of the Prague Proof House (Lion/Date). Some of these pistols were diverted to the US market, and that's why we will sometimes see Vz.52's that have commercially proofed barrels.

Offline slimjim

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Re: Recently purchased CZ-52 9mm
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2015, 01:28:47 PM »
No way in HE-L are the Dots Hardness tests! How could a Mint one refurbed 1 time have 18 dots on Slide??????? Be real!!!!!!!!!!!  Also Ur wrong about it falling apart in normal use, but after heavy use of the hot Czech ammo some pins needed staking which is normal on many guns after many yrs. and rounds!!

When the CZ 52's were 1st imported most were Mint and had 1 Dot or 0 dots but in later yrs. used 1's showed up with many dots and some had pins staked and many were refurbed and reblued there or some here by Century and those by Century were recalled and they had messed up many!

Offline Thrdofmny

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Re: Recently purchased CZ-52 9mm
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2015, 02:32:01 PM »
I'm sure they meant something at sometime. I could see hardness before accuracy. But arguing about it is moot because we'll probably never know. As mentioned earlier, the Czechs are probably too busy laughing at us to tell us the truth.
As for all the other information, it is something I stumbled across while searching. I don't claim it to be gospel truth. Just interesting. I raised my own eyebrows at the claim of them falling apart. Everything I've read says the opposite. Then again so many of them have the VOP stamp meaning they've  been reworked at some point. Who knows.
Until the Czechs put out a book or start coughing up answers then we may never have the answers we want.

Offline eastman

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Re: Recently purchased CZ-52 9mm
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2015, 09:39:03 PM »
My 52 likes to let the extractor pin wander up so it can throw the extractor and its spring somewhere across the range. I tried a little Loctite, but if it does it again, I'll be testing the automatic center punch as a staking tool.
I don't look like my avatar!

Offline TexCanaan

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Re: Recently purchased CZ-52 9mm
« Reply #40 on: November 07, 2015, 01:25:49 AM »
Okay, now I'm curious. My own CZ 52 has no dots, nor does it have the "VOP" on it. The stamp on the left side of the frame, forward and left of the trigger, doesn't have the letters "ZB" before the numbers, but the letters "CB". This is the same for the slide, and for the barrel. The serial numbers all match.

Another curious thing, on the underside of the frame, I guess you'd call it the receiver, at the very end, there is another stamp that reads

"CZECH CZ52
7.62TOK"

There is another line under those two, difficult to make out, but it looks like it might say "PAC MDSTO, CA"


All these things combined, I'm beginning to wonder if mine is even an original CZ 52 at all. But it does have the crossed swords and the number 54, indicating a 1954 model, I believe.

Also, this weapon is chambered for the 7.62x25mm Tokarev round. I've already fired it a good number of times. Feels very good, not a great deal of recoil (to me). But

Offline Thrdofmny

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Re: Recently purchased CZ-52 9mm
« Reply #41 on: November 07, 2015, 04:46:49 AM »
http://www.m1-garand-rifle.com/cz52/markings.php

You are right on the date. Most of the other markings sound like an importer stamp. Not sure of the CB part. The link above explains some of the markings.

Offline TexCanaan

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Re: Recently purchased CZ-52 9mm
« Reply #42 on: November 07, 2015, 01:50:47 PM »
I suppose, in the end, none of these marking really matter that much to me, other than idle curiousity. It isn't like I will ever sell or give away my CZ. While most would see it as just another gun, it means a lot more than that to me, as it was my Dad's pistol. It was also the last gun that we shot targets with together. So, markings or not, genuine or not, this gun will remain with me until I breathe my last, or have a son to whicb to pass it on.

That said, it IS interesting to learn all those little tidbits about this specific model. So, thank you for putting in all that research. :)

God bless

Offline Thrdofmny

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Re: Recently purchased CZ-52 9mm
« Reply #43 on: November 07, 2015, 02:10:57 PM »
Here's some more information on the markings, if you want to read through all of it.

http://www.ai4fr.com/main/page_militaria__collectibles_other_cz_52.html

That's a great story. I wouldn't sell it either.
Thanks for the kind words. I'm just looking for answers.