Just took delivery...

[MeatAxe]

...from my LGS on a CSA Tactical Vz58 in 7.62x39 -- trying to beat the coming Hitlery Panic!

I appreciate all the help from the CZ Forum members!

This thing is sweet! Lightweight, obviously precision crafted and looks great! I may have to get myself a Vz58 pistol before all is said and done.

The only problems / questions:

I do not like the CSA contoured pistol grip. Have never been a fan of finger and thumb groves as my fingers always seem to land on them wrong. It just feels awkward and the back part of the grip feels too wide / uncomfortable in my hands.

However, I think I've found a good solution in an actual FN M249 SAW pistol grip, which always feels right to me, whether it's on a FAL, AK or whatever. It requires some filing / Dremel work to fit, but since the angle of the Vz grip screw is about identical to the 2nd hole on the SAW grip, it works. DSA sells a US made version, complete with metal trapdoor storage. I assume a metric FAL grip would work as well, but that has a shallower grip angle than the SAW. I'm not sure a Tapco SAW grip for an AK would work as the grip screw angle and hole location are different.

The sights:

Looks like they might be too low to co-witness on a rear-mounted red dot sight...Is there a taller front sight base available?

Also, any suggestions on a railed handguard? I might remove the existing rear sight slide and mount a rear sight on top of the hand guard rail in conjunction with a taller FSB.

Thanks!

[TJNewton]

Congratulations on the purchase.  I'm sure it's a very nice firearm.  I'm not sure if this was addressed in your previous thread, but absolutely skip even trying any 2-for-a-buck stripper clip off of Amazon or Ebay.  They're all aftermarket garbage made on worn out machinery.  Even with a ton of time and effort with pliers and a file will not get them to work the way they should.  The best are Czechoslovakin "BXN" clips or Yugo clips.  The BXN can be found on EBay regularly for about $1 a clip, sometimes 60-75 cents in bulk.  They're well worth the extra cost.  The only place I've found the Yugo are with surplus ammo, which SGAmmo sells.  I still prefer the BXN over the Yugo. 

Let us know how well your rifle feeds with stripper clips.  My VZ2008's don't feed as well as my SKS's, but I suspect that it's due to the VZ58 magazines not having as firm a seat as the factory fixed SKS magazine, as well as the greater spring pressure for the 30-round VZ58 magazines.  Your rifle, with the fixed 10-round magazine, should theoretically also feed well.

As for a red dot mount, I recommend the Ramlite magnetic rail: 

http://ramlite.com/products/vz58-century-arms-vz2008-magnetic-rail-mount

There are some who don't like it, claiming it doesn't hold zero, but during my testing it held zero with no problem and I was able to ring steel plates out to 75 yards quickly and repeatedly with a 2 MOA red dot with no problem.  It was on and off many times as I was also testing spare internal parts.  Here's a link to my review:

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=77719.0

It won't cowitness, but that's relatively unnecessary due to its quick detach design.

Looking forward to a range report.

[gwvt]

Ronin's Grips makes a smooth, longer grip. I am very happy with mine.

http://shop.roninsgrips.com/Czech-vz58-Long-Grip-with-Screw-Czech-vz58-Long.htm

[Orpheus]

On a work trip to south carolina, I went to a range with a large selection of rentals including an AK with all magpul furniture. The MOE+ pistol grip I felt was about as perfect as perfect gets. Not hard to adapt to the 58

[RSR]

I really like the K2+ grip and angle better than the MOE on ARs.  Go back and forth between that and the BCM primarily.  The Umbrella Corp/B5 systems grip is nice too.  Both K2+ and UC/B5 grips seem to support those w/ larger hands better than BCM which is more versatile -- MOEs are thinner too.

Why all that?  They are all more vertically oriented grips, which I prefer on carbines...  The Hogue AK grip I installed last year on a Krink and still like it a lot -- definitely a more vertical angle than the Hogue AR version. 

On VZ58s, I have the Ronin Galil Ultra and FAB galil Ultra Grips, but I've been thinking about modifying a Hogue, which other members here have done.  There are some assorted Czech-made grips for the VZ58 as well in various formats too...

[MeatAxe]

Thanks, guys, for all the info! That gives me a lot to consider...

What's the favored railed or rail capable hand guard for the Vz58?

[paskeCZ]

NEA.

[RSR]

NEA.

+1.

Bottom, only the small rail will fit.  And the small rail is sufficient to mount an AFG or other grip. 

Support hand side, I like the long rail for heat deflection as well as a continuous surface for my hand being mounted against. 

Opposite side, I have a small rail for flashlight mount or other accessory if needed.  Better to have and not need, than not have and need...

Also, NEA does sit slightly higher than bonesteel.  But it is a much more substantial rail in pretty much every respect.  And its design is also such that it prevents things from falling into the handguard, unlike Bonesteel.  Whether NEA is "overbuilt" or that extra bulk is critical is quite fairly up for discussion.  But that's my primary takeaway.

Lowers Bonesteel is better ventilated and has much more rail space -- for NEA, more rails means less ventilation.  Also, Bonesteel, you don't have to worry about rails working themselves loose.

But, for Bonesteel in hand, the lower is almost too wide.  Wider than AR quad rails.  And I haven't mounted it yet to try, but I also don't think the bonesteel will be friendly to the gogun gas pedal, which it and the AFG make a pretty much perfect forehand grip w/ my Troy/NEA, and do a very good job of minimizing heat on the support hand.  Without the Gas pedal on bonesteel, support hand thumb ends up on top rail right next to where the pistol in exhausting the gas (point of greatest heat).  Not ideal.
My Daniels Defense Omega rail: 1.9", 48.3mm.
Bonesteel: 2.15", 54.5mm.

In comparison my Midwest Industries Galil Quad Rail is 2.25"/57.3mm, but feels much narrower -- I think it has to be something to do with the wide rail sitting so low to the palm of the hand, but not certain... 
**PAUSE**
So ran through these again.  Bonesteel the meat of thumb ends up atop the side rail.  NEA is about 2/3 on and 1/3 off the rail and the Midwest and Daniels both run palm entirely on the rail.  That's the hangup with bonesteel.  I can rotate my palm more under the barrel , but then I'm not using the same grip on the afg as I"m used too...  Not sure if I'm describing correctly, but the meat of the thumb, portion of palm connected to thumb is what I'm describing...
Bottom line, bonesteel is high enough that my thumb sits atop the side rail and is the only quad rail I have where a c-clamp grip would be described as natural.  It'd be hot, but natural...  Without an AFG that grip would probably be worse... 

Looks like I've gone and convinced myself to spend more $ on upgrading my 2nd tacticool VZ2008 to an NEA fore-end at some  point...

So I've posted before about how low the Bonesteel side rail sits, so thought I'd post some pics today while I was snapping some pics.

Here's the Galil Midwest Industries top vs the Bonesteel bottom.  As mentioned, my thumb rides the top of the bonesteel rail, making a C clamp grip natural -- but that doesn't work if you're running a co-witness red dot...  Otherwise, your thumb right there puts it at hot central...



Bonesteel top vs NEA/Troy bottom (though perhaps not entirely obvious from the pic, the NEA has about 2x the distance between rails as the bonesteel):

*Worth mentioning that the bottom rail, I leave the front most hole open for increased ventilation there as well as most support for the AFG.  And the long NEA side rail, allows some venting at the foremost side rail hole, and the sling swivel attachment hole offers add'l ventilation on the rear...  To mount the gas pedal where I needed it, the sling swivel attachment hole would've been covered so I sent it to the rear...  W/o the gas pedal, would probably help w/ ventilation/cooling to the front if you don't need to mount a sling...

And here's just the setup of the go gun gas pedal and AFG that I really like for the VZ58 -- this is the aluminum version that runs about $50 vs $15 polymer airsoft ones you can find.  (Need to order some ODG rail covers...)



In summary, the NEA handguard fits my hand similar to my AK/Galil and AR handguards where my thumb and the meat of my thumb rides the rail.  Bonesteel has my thumb and most of the meat of my thumb riding the top of the side rail.

*Should mention that I'm looking to sell this Bonesteel rail and will separate w/ it at cost plus shipping.  Didn't use Bonesteel's screw adhesive, just blue loctite, so all the adjustment screws should be easily removed and no modifications were made to the rails.  Also have a black aluminum gas pedal I don't have an immediate need for that I'd sell for $50 delivered (installed but never left the house) if anyone is looking.  Essentially same price as gogun but free shipping.  PM me for either.

http://store.gogunusa.com/Gas-Pedal-for-Rifles_c5.htm

[gwvt]

NEA.

+2
I took a similar approach as RSR except went with the FAB PTK / VTS combo. I tried the AFG and it was fine but the PTK worked better for me. A plus is that there's a compartment in the PTK that I've managed to fit a battery and key for the red dot, plus a little bottle of oil. I wasn't sure I'd like the AFG idea, much less the thumb rest but the ergonomics are great for me.
 

[RSR]

If you do a fab AFG, you can also do a fab pistol grip and it'll color match. 

My main issue w/ fab is that I'm not a huge fan of their color palette -- olive drab is more of a lighter camo green and their tan is a desert tan/khaki not fde...  For someone like me who tries to be a firearms utilitarian, it's ridiculous, I know.

Gwvt isn't the first to note that he likes the FAB version better than the magpul, so take that for what it's worth. 

From looking at Gwvt's pic, I'd think the FAB version would probably fit my hand better on the bonesteel rail setup than that did AFG and gas pedal -- essentially it appears that thumb would ride 1/2 rail width higher w/ that setup, and top of rail was where my thumb fell naturally w/ the bonesteel...  My AFG and gas pedal setup would probably still be my favorite from what I can see in that pic -- my thumb rides straight forward on the gaspedal rather than having to rise up and clamp like I'd think it would have to otherwise on the FAB.
Main point here is that folks w/ the bonesteel rail wanting a similar setup would probably be really well served w/ the FAB option -- can't express enough how much I like the gas pedal (go w/ aluminum on my VZ58s due to greater heat, probably not necessary however, and have the polymer on a couple ARs... 

Otherwise, move gwvts red dot one slot to the rear, reverse the long rail so qd is to the rear, and the afg/thumb rest differences already noted, and we have pretty much the same setup... 

[RSR]

Update on previous.  GWVTs post got me intrigued. 

So playing with my thumb riding 1/2 of a rail width higher (along the top edge of the rail), I found that my pinky finger, first section past base/1st knuckle -- between first and 2nd knuckles, 1st section from hand of pinky finger -- is what pressed against the rear of my AFG. 
In my usual configuration, it's the 1st knuckle (a little) and meat of hand (mostly) that impact that point of the AFG. 
Both, it's the leftside bottom edge that I'm pressing against, it isn't square onto the rear (right handed shooter, so left support hand is what grabs here)...

When trying to hold the weapon with just one hand, my support hand, on the foregrip, it's perhaps best described as trying to carry something heavy by squeezing the side (higher grip) or having your hand underneath (my standard grip).   With higher grip, I find myself tilting weapon ~45* (12 oclock to at least 10:30 or so) to the side to bring back to a similar orientation to my standard grip due to strain...  Standard grip, I find myself tilting it only ~15* (from 12 oclock to less than 11, 11:30 or so) to the side after awhile one handed to bring my support hand centered beneath weapon weight...

Considering above, I think I'm sticking w/ what/how I'm currently setup. 

And for what it's worth, I have longer/large-size length fingers but medium sized hands and typically prefer medium sized gloves.  I also prefer a tight fight w/ gloves for maximum dexterity -- and with good leathers a tight fit is critical for them to properly fit your hand once broken in...  Mechanics, other off the shelf work gloves, etc, I grab the mediums 8 or 9 times out of 10...  Offhand, I have some heavy winter goretex snow gloves that are large, but that's about it.

EDIT and NOTE: FAB's PTK angles most certainly are different than the Magpul AFG -- this is just what I've found w/ the Magpul AFG based on where I'm indexing my thumb...  And this is w/ the NEA rail setup.

[Cwong]

Please dont show me something, I can never get. I have a bottom but not a top!

NEA.

[paskeCZ]

And I have a top but not a bottom

[MeatAxe]

Interesting...I'm leaning towards the Bonesteel Vz58 hand guard, which is US made and 922r compliant unlike the FAB Defense and NEA.

Apparently, you can modify an AK railed handguard to fit on the Vz58, though I'm not sure what the modification entailed...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVMJi-HJRhM

Thanks, all, for the info!

[Cwong]

You can sell it to me, that way I'll have a full set 

And I have a top but not a bottom