Author Topic: Why This Particular Design?  (Read 1647 times)

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Offline WiskyT

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Why This Particular Design?
« on: May 31, 2017, 08:08:04 PM »
What I mean is, why is the CZ 75 pattern the choice for all of these different companies to "clone"?

I understand the 1911, it is a popular arm, and virtually all 1911 clones are simply copies of the original pattern to the point that all parts interchange, and, for the most part, these companies get a high price for their 1911's.  The 1911 requires a fair amount of machining etc and the price commanded for even the lower priced clones probably covers this.

In the case of the CZ 75, there is probably an equal amount of machining, yet the clones can be had for very low prices.  Also, each one of these different clones is just a bit different, meaning that someone at each company had to sit down and make plans, jigs, etc pretty much from scratch which adds to the cost.

Certain designs, like Glocks and the various copies that have sprung up over the years are specifically designed to be cheap to produce.  That is why you see SW moving from the 59 series to the M&P, Ruger from the P series to the SR, Sig has numerous plasti-wonders as an option to it's more expensive 228/229 and on and on.

So, why do these diverse companies, across several continents, choose the CZ 75 as the basis to produce an affordable pistol when, from a cost perspective, there would be better choices?  Maybe I should just keep quiet since I was able to buy a brand new, beautifully finished, all steel, completely reliable, accurate pistol for $299.00.

Offline Flibuoy1

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Re: Why This Particular Design?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2017, 08:40:32 PM »
I will throw this out there

No patent protection outside of what is now the Czech Republic. It was a good design in 1975 and when first models were allowed to be exported the race was on, why reinvent the wheel?
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Offline TripppleP

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Re: Why This Particular Design?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2017, 08:55:59 PM »
I'm just brain storming.  The 1911 is an American design in which Americans think of as the standard to clone while the rest of the world might look at the CZ as the standard. 

Good question. I'm interested to hear what others say.

Offline oteroman

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Re: Why This Particular Design?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2017, 09:12:10 PM »
Rounds it hold. In war how many bullets do you want in your gun?


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Offline Peacetilence

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  • CZ 75B, PCR, 97BD and Scorpion EVO3. Fun :)
Re: Why This Particular Design?
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2017, 12:05:21 AM »
The 75 is a very reliable, accurate and easy to shoot gun. Why reinvent the wheel when you can start w/ a proven design at no cost ? Machining nowadays is cheaper than ever, metal investment casting is becoming the norm and production numbers are up. 1911 clones start at $400 retail (sometimes less), but it's a less reliable old design. So someone looking to sell a lot of guns to LE or military probably will pick the 75 over the 1911 (see IMI Jericho 941 as an example.)

Glock's are a true gold mine, their guesstimated manufacturing cost is about $75... (in 2003)

Offline rabble_rouser

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Re: Why This Particular Design?
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2017, 12:38:59 AM »
Gotta be honest, the first three replies pretty much wrapped it up IMHO. Higher capacity, accurate by design with a lower bore axis, and a free hand to tweak the design at will without legal wrangling over patent rights.

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Offline jwc007

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Re: Why This Particular Design?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2017, 12:57:29 AM »
None other than the late Jeff Cooper heralded the Cz 75 as the finest 9mm service pistol made.

Personally, I like the ergonomics of the design, along with it's accuracy and reliability.  What's not to like?
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Offline weaselfire

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Re: Why This Particular Design?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2017, 08:32:54 AM »
It's the High Power Browning intended to make.  The High Power was the 1911 Browning thought he was making.  😀

Jeff

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Offline inthevalley

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Re: Why This Particular Design?
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2017, 02:28:58 PM »
Why CZ instead of 1911?

1. The CZ was invented 2 generations later, the way it is manufacturered is based around almost-modern equipment and processes
     By contrast, the 1911 requires a large number of parts to be hand fitted. This adds to the cost of building a quality 1911.

2. Due to #1, it is very expensive to make a QUALITY 1911. By QUALITY I mean durable, reliable, and accurate. An example of such a weapon would be a Wilson Combat 1911. The cheap 1911s have poor reliability, poor durability, or poor accuracy when compared to a basic CZ platform clone

3. This is my personal opinion, but even the best 1911 is inferior as a weapon compared to a CZ. The CZ holds double the rounds, is tougher (no linked barrel for one, no small parts in the firing pin safety for two, I could go on..), has a lower bore axis, and is inherently more reliable . The above is especially true if comparing a 1911 to a Tanfoglio or Omega  CZ derivative.
This should not be surprising since the CZ Omega is an improved CZ75, which is an improved High Power, which is an improved 1911.
For the same reason you wouldn't expect a highly tuned Colt SAA to compare to even a basic 1911, a highly tuned 1911, (again just my opinion) doesn't compare to a highly tuned CZ. They are 2-3 generations more advanced as a platform.

#3 Is less true if you are talking about 2011 based designs like an STI, but then they are $2500 and up.

4. Due to #3, the CZ in some form or another is the sidearm of more militaries across the world than any other platform. This means the companies which supply those militaries already have equipment in place they can turn to export production. The same cannot be said if a 1911.

Offline Flibuoy1

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Re: Why This Particular Design?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2017, 03:57:07 PM »
Actually I am fine with both the basic designs. Preferring one over the other is a personal choice, or the new parlor game Fun With Numbers. Both have been besmirched by some poor manufacturering and both have marketed overpriced pinnacles of perfection that need trips back to the shop.

Both have an appeal. Beauty, aesthetics, are in the eye of the beholder. However, both typically function beautifully....I own and shoot both. Because I am something of a dimwit I require the same configuration in controls. Beyond that I really don't look inside as a critic and I certainly am not qualified to judge designs beyond my opinion. Both designs work. Both are genius
 
Myself, I look forward to an improvement coming along that is an actual improvement...I am not emotionally involved with either



Have you ever seen a statue honoring someone who left well enough alone?