Author Topic: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Evaluation Complete  (Read 2555 times)

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Offline RSR

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Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Evaluation Complete
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2019, 09:27:32 PM »
Yes, unfortunately.

I may have to move to SC, NC or GA, if that happens.

The cluster of voting in NoVa is what is dictating the rest of the state.


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SC is fairly strong insofar as 2A goes, but both NC and GA are following closely behind VA in becoming more liberal states due to demographic reasons.  Unless you're wanting to stay coastal, I'd personally look to WV or KY for 2A reasons, and a $ typically goes further on the real estate front.  Depending on where you're located, can likely also find property that's driveable to your current locale. 

TN is also trending more liberal and suburban-dominated w/ all growth and out-of-staters flocking to Nashville.  It's roughly a decade behind VA in that trend but nevertheless preceding down that path.  MO and AR both seem to be holding conservative, if not becoming more so and somewhat similar terrain and culture to the more typical Appalachia. 

Yes, definitely get VA's political dynamics -- lived and worked in DC in the political space for a few years and remain in that mix.

Offline RSR

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Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Evaluation Complete
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2019, 09:43:26 PM »
Thanks for the comment! I'm not a big fan of lasers, especially at distance. Tracking the dot is a little like watching a fly trying to get through a window screen. It bounces all over the place and makes accurate shooting somewhat iffy. At this point, I'm waiting very impatiently for the MCarbo optic mount. If it works the way I THINK its going to, then the optic should pretty much self-deploy as the S2K is unfolded. If that mount turns out to be a solid base for an optic, then I will almost certainly add a red-dot to my carbine. If not, then I'll stick with the iron sights until something better comes along.

Thanks again,
HRF

FWIW, the bouncing laser does apply to handguns, but I find that it doesn't really apply in a meaningful way to rifles.   I also find lasers on any weapon to be a great tool for diagnosing any issues with technique on any weapon (but especially pistols, and including when dry firing) -- bouncing indicates an issue w/ the shooter, not the tools.

To that end, I carry a 10/22 w/ lasermax's 10/22 laser mounted (replaces forend band) on it most evenings and nights on my property as my varmint rifle for coons, fox, and coyotes (when aware of coyotes or hunting them, I use an AR in 5.56, but .22lr when shooting CCI velocitors is capable of humane coyote kills given adequate shot placement).  Have some poultry that roost in trees and other livestock the 'yotes pursue.  And I've never had a problem w/ bouncing laser affecting either accuracy or ability to take stationary or moving varmints.

When properly shouldering the rifle, the laser dot is just above and partially obscured by the front sight post, and white light mounted to side ride of lasermax also illuminates the front sight post's brass insert.

If you're looking CDNN has the 10/22 laser for $25 or so right now.  Originally retailed at $120 IIRC.

For the Sub2k, I am currently looking at a light w/ laser -- just haven't decided on which yet.  Have been spending some time finalizing that build out and think it's finally nearing it's final evolution for the forseeable future -- having figured out where it excels, and how it best fits into my system...

Offline RSR

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Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Evaluation Complete
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2019, 11:34:41 PM »
...At this point, I'm waiting very impatiently for the MCarbo optic mount. If it works the way I THINK its going to, then the optic should pretty much self-deploy as the S2K is unfolded. If that mount turns out to be a solid base for an optic, then I will almost certainly add a red-dot to my carbine. If not, then I'll stick with the iron sights until something better comes along.

This. I've been hearing rumors of M*Carbo's optic mount for some time...I hope we see it soon.

I was completely unaware of this forthcoming offering.  Very cool and looks to be the ticket.  I posted a bit of a novel on their forum just now regarding the design iteration released just today.  It looks like they're having trouble perfecting the hinge mechanism from both production and function standpoints.  I don't care for the mechanism on the latest and question some of the attempt at perfect rigidity considering it's mounting to polymer clamshell handguards.  Regardless, it looks like they're committed to getting it right and look forward to their ultimate solution. 

Early youtube video, just b/c.


Offline MuzzleBlastMD

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Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Evaluation Complete
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2019, 10:10:52 AM »
...At this point, I'm waiting very impatiently for the MCarbo optic mount. If it works the way I THINK its going to, then the optic should pretty much self-deploy as the S2K is unfolded. If that mount turns out to be a solid base for an optic, then I will almost certainly add a red-dot to my carbine. If not, then I'll stick with the iron sights until something better comes along.

This. I've been hearing rumors of M*Carbo's optic mount for some time...I hope we see it soon.

I was completely unaware of this forthcoming offering.  Very cool and looks to be the ticket.  I posted a bit of a novel on their forum just now regarding the design iteration released just today.  It looks like they're having trouble perfecting the hinge mechanism from both production and function standpoints.  I don't care for the mechanism on the latest and question some of the attempt at perfect rigidity considering it's mounting to polymer clamshell handguards.  Regardless, it looks like they're committed to getting it right and look forward to their ultimate solution. 

Early youtube video, just b/c.



I’m so impressed by MCarbo.  That would definitely work, assuming it keeps zero.


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Offline Walt Sherrill

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Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Evaluation Complete
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2019, 11:52:53 AM »
I picked up a Millett quick release mount for mine -- but haven't had a chance to try it out, yet.   It's aluminum, not plastic, and easily installed or removed with the sight on it.  (Only $18.95.)  I couldn't find a good plastic quick-release mount with good reviews that had the height I wanted. The Millett has a great reputation, but I haven't had a chance to try it out, yet. 

I can shoot it at an indoor range where I normally shoot, but that won't be good for sighting it in for greater distances.  It will probably tell me whether it'll hold zero as I hope.  With 9mm (what I have, 50yds and 100 yrds are supposed to both be the same (given the rise and drop hits those point.  Up close (50') it'll probably be a little high.  (An earlier 9mm sub-2000 I owned was dead on at about 30' -- with the stock sights, and the bullet still rising.

I have upgraded my Sub2000 with most of the M*Carbo upgrades (about $180 worth.)  Got a tube cover (for cheek weld) from Tacti-Cool, and their bolt release cover, as well.   I got a GREAT PRICE for the sub-2000 on Gun Broker  ($325) -- guess I just timed my last bid right, for a change.  I've picked up a SIG Romeo5 red dot, too -- also on sale from Palmetto State Armory.

It may be several weeks before I can try it out at appropriate distances.

Offline ben512

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Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Evaluation Complete
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2019, 11:57:05 AM »
They have a folding optic mount that allows you to keep a red dot mounted and fold the 2000
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Offline Walt Sherrill

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Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Evaluation Complete
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2019, 02:16:17 PM »
Quote from: ben512
They have a folding optic mount that allows you to keep a red dot mounted and fold the 2000

I've seen the folding mount, and it is said to hold zero, but the I know that the Merritt I got, which has a quick release, also holds zero when remounted.  That folding mount costs almost $100, while my two quick release mounts cost less than $20 each.  The Merritt quick release mount I've got (with the SIG Romeo5 already on it) probably takes maybe less than a minute to mount.

With the folding mount I'm not sure you can easily move the mounted sight out of the way to use the factory sights on the gun -- which you might want to do if you have a dead battery or something goes wrong with the electronics.  I don't know how hard it might be to take off the Sub-2000.

I've got another Red Dot system and it's mounted on the other quick release mount, but I've not sighted it in, yet.  If it holds zero I'll have two   two different red dot systems, both with sturdy quick-release aluminum mounts.  I'll probably end up mounting the second sight system on another gun.   Both the SIG Romeo5, another Red Dot, and the two quick-release mounts cost me less than a total of $160 delivered.

In theory, it would be nice to have a red dot sight that could be co-witnessed with the factory sights, but doing that would force you into a less comfortable position when using the factory sights. Higher factory-type sights would be the solution, there -- as the stock sights make you bend you head down awkwardly.   

Ignoring the factory sights is the best path, as long as your other optical system works.  A detachable Monte Carlo cheek rest (also using a quick-release or folding design) would probably be a big seller if it could be done in a way that doesn't interfere with the bolt handle as the gun is fired.

Offline wanderson

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Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Evaluation Complete
« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2019, 09:24:47 AM »
I think sights & optics has always been the weak spot in an otherwise excellent design of the Sub2k.

I’ve tried quite a few different combos on my gen 2. Wound up with a Streamlight TRL-4 light/laser down low and a Bushnell TRS-25 red dot on a high rise QD mount. I filed the top of the railed handguard flat as mine wasn’t flat side-side at the seam. And swapped in a KNS cross hair front sight post.

I don’t like anything that hangs off the side when folded, as is it easily slips anywhere when folded and hides in my laptop bag while it’s carrying a laptop.  Mine stays in a drawer in a locked tool cabinet that’s so shallow some of my double stack handguns don’t fit, this does.

I do think the video above of the new hinged receiver mount is the best option I’ve seen so far.

Offline Walt Sherrill

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Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Evaluation Complete
« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2019, 10:02:41 AM »
I've had a chance to use the Merritt (quick release) mount and the SIG Romeo5 red dot sight on my Sub-2000 several times now, and it seems to hold Zero quite well.   My son is into ARs, and he also has a SIG MPX (which is 9mm) and I've found that the Sub-2000 shoots quite well when compared to the much, much pricier SIG MPX.  (We both use the SIG Romeo5 sight, which have been on sale recently in the $100 range.)   At 50 yards -- I haven't tried accuracy at greater distances yet -- I find that the Sub-2000 and MPX are shoot-alikes in terms of performance.  My grandson, who is becoming a pretty adept shooter LOVES the Sub-2000!  Even my son, the died-in-the-wool SIG AR fan -- commented on how well the Sub-2000 shoots.  (I don't think he's going to sell his MPX and get 3-4 Sub-2000, but that would show the difference in costs.

I tried a Monstrumm quick release mount that seemed to be roughly equivalent to the Millett, but there was no comparison.   When you've release the mounted sight from the sub-2000, the attachment mechanism onf the Monstrumm unit appears ready to fall apart -- a ring and nut on the other end of the lever is very loose and nothing seems to be holding those pieces on the cross bar except tightness when mounted.  The Monstrumm unit will go in the parts bin, bu I suspect it will eventually be thrown out.  A second Millett came yesterday. 
  • I can't say enough good things about the Romeo5 or the Millett mount I'm using.
  • I can also give a big roar of approval for the M*Carbo trigger upgrade kit.  It drops the trigger pull weight from around 10 lbs down to 4.5-5.0 lbs, and the surprising crispness of the Sub-2000 trigger is still there.
  • I added an M*Carbo  polished metal feed ramp and metal trigger guard release, a small recoil buffer, and a Tacti-Cool frame cover for the rear of the gun.
  • I picked up some Korean-made $9.99 Glock 33-round 9mm magazines -- expecting the worst and hoping for the best -- and they work like a charm!
I got the Sub-2000 Gen 2 for $325 on Gun Broker, and $25 shipping -- and added about $200 for all the other parts (excluding the Romeo5, which was $109), and the gun is one of the best values I've ever gotten for money spent. 

You can run the sub-2000 without all of the upgrades and still be quite happy with it.

Offline MuzzleBlastMD

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Re: Kel-Tec Sub2000 Evaluation Complete
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2019, 10:38:08 AM »


I was concerned about the Midwest industries swivel mount keeping zero.

I bought a thin mount 45 degree but it didn’t let the Keltec Sub 2000 (Sub 2K) lock into place. So I decided to get an M-Lok Rail and mount the 45 degree mount onto it, instead,

I put the optic on the left since I read about blowback when shooting. 

I wanted a light on it, too, so I used another M-Lok rail on the right. I mounted an angled foregrip for stability.

I haven’t zeroed the optic or shot the Keltec Sub 2000 (Sub 2K) at all.


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