Author Topic: What's the best/smoothest 9mm taper crimp die?  (Read 1574 times)

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Offline romex2121

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Re: What's the best/smoothest 9mm taper crimp die?
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2019, 03:18:25 PM »
Just curious as to what causes the circular marks around the mid section of this case.  When I pick up range brass for my 9mm loads I see that "chattermark" and throw the case in recycle bin, not knowing what causes it.

I believe its a type of crimp some brands use to keep the bullet from being able to be pushed back into the case,,  I know Aguila uses it on their ammo,,,   like you i wouldnt load cases picked up at the range because of that, in fact i still dont bother with it now that i know what it is   ;)


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« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 03:28:40 PM by Wobbly »

Offline Wobbly

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Re: What's the best/smoothest 9mm taper crimp die?
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2019, 03:23:06 PM »
Is there a reason to move on from the Lee taper crimp die?
The primary reason for me is that the one I got had terrible machining marks.

Based on my experience, the Lee TCD touches the cartridge case using only a small fraction of it's internal surface. Therefore the remainder of the die can be "rough cut" for manufacturing speed and economy. Since those surfaces are non-operational, they have no effect on the finished cartridge.

So there may well be rough surfaces on your die, but look at the finished cartridge. Are those marks showing up on your finished product ??
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Offline Wobbly

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Re: What's the best/smoothest 9mm taper crimp die?
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2019, 03:41:32 PM »
Just curious as to what causes the circular marks around the mid section of this case.  When I pick up range brass for my 9mm loads I see that "chattermark" and throw the case in recycle bin, not knowing what causes it.

I believe its a type of crimp some brands use to keep the bullet from being able to be pushed back into the case,,  I know Aguila uses it on their ammo,,,   like you i wouldnt load cases picked up at the range because of that, in fact i still dont bother with it now that i know what it is   ;)

It is indeed an anti-setback feature (cannelure ?) added to the case on high-end SD and LEO ammo. Bullet setback can be a bad thing on auto pistols when the same round is chambered over and over, and so your better ammo tries to counter this.

For reloaders it is absolutely of no consequence in my experience. Look at the photo I supplied (which is the focus of this conversation). That round had already been reloaded 3 or 4 times. The dimpling in the photo, which used to be fairly deep, is almost non-existent. The reason is that the case mouth Expander goes in there and irons out the inside of the case mouth.

You're depending on the Sizing die to move the case mouth 0.005-0.007", but thinking the Expander can't move the same piece 0.002" is an underestimate.

 ;)
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Offline Wobbly

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Re: What's the best/smoothest 9mm taper crimp die?
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2019, 03:59:37 PM »
The sign at the "Returns" line at the Redding Store:  "Zero Customers Served"


This is funny because my son has been going on and on and on about his new Redding taper crimp die. He loves the thing. Of course, he won't bring it when he comes to visit, but he will talk about it. So last Sunday I decided (for the good of the group  ::) ) to sacrifice $40 and buy one for myself.

If everyone reading this could simply send me $1, then I'll start testing on Thursday evening.

 ;)
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Offline painter

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Re: What's the best/smoothest 9mm taper crimp die?
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2019, 05:39:39 PM »
Just curious as to what causes the circular marks around the mid section of this case.  When I pick up range brass for my 9mm loads I see that "chattermark" and throw the case in recycle bin, not knowing what causes it.


You can see it very clearly in this photo...



Those marks are from the manufacturer. Those cases you're throwing out are fine.
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Offline toteone

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Re: What's the best/smoothest 9mm taper crimp die?
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2019, 12:01:32 AM »
Thanks for enlightening me on circular dimplez on case.  I will certainly keep and reuse these in the future.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: What's the best/smoothest 9mm taper crimp die?
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2019, 04:00:57 PM »
Thanks for enlightening me on circular dimplez on case.  I will certainly keep and reuse these in the future.

Thanks for recycling. We really don't like to call the Reloading Police on anyone. And it's no fun trying to put your home's front door back in the jam at 3AM.

 O0
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Offline recoilguy

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Re: What's the best/smoothest 9mm taper crimp die?
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2019, 06:30:26 PM »
The sign at the "Returns" line at the Redding Store:  "Zero Customers Served"

Awesome!!!!
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Offline recoilguy

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Re: What's the best/smoothest 9mm taper crimp die?
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2019, 06:38:42 PM »
I have a Redding die and a RCBS die.
The last couple days I have gone from HP's from Precision Delta to round nose bullets
Loading Bayou 124g round nose the RCBS produces absolutely beautiful bullets.

The Redding is a spoiler, but my other dies are RCBS which makes using the RCBS TC die the next logical step.

I get the Redding out when I am deliberately thinking about it or when the RCBS gets inconsistent OAL from the bullet type I am loading.

Just my experience and my opinion not meant as a testimonial or even a recommendation.

RCG
What I lack in speed , I make up for with inaccuracy

Offline Wobbly

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Re: What's the best/smoothest 9mm taper crimp die?
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2019, 08:39:01 AM »
This is funny because my son has been going on and on and on about his new Redding taper crimp die. He loves the thing. Of course, he won't bring it when he comes to visit, but he will talk about it. So last Sunday I decided (for the good of the group  ::) ) to sacrifice $40 and buy one for myself.

If everyone reading this could simply send me $1, then I'll start testing on Thursday evening.


No die delivered as of Sat morning.   :P
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Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: What's the best/smoothest 9mm taper crimp die?
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2019, 10:21:02 AM »
This is funny because my son has been going on and on and on about his new Redding taper crimp die. He loves the thing. Of course, he won't bring it when he comes to visit, but he will talk about it. So last Sunday I decided (for the good of the group  ::) ) to sacrifice $40 and buy one for myself.

If everyone reading this could simply send me $1, then I'll start testing on Thursday evening.


No die delivered as of Sat morning.   :P

A noble sacrifice! Can’t wait to hear your thoughts!
"In God I trust. All others must supply data."

Offline Wobbly

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Re: What's the best/smoothest 9mm taper crimp die?
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2019, 11:25:22 AM »
A noble sacrifice!


Still waiting on your $1 contribution to the "noble sacrifice".

 O0
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Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: What's the best/smoothest 9mm taper crimp die?
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2019, 05:52:52 PM »
A noble sacrifice!


Still waiting on your $1 contribution to the "noble sacrifice".

 O0

Just post up your credit card number and social security number and I’ll transfer the funds.
"In God I trust. All others must supply data."

Offline Wobbly

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Re: What's the best/smoothest 9mm taper crimp die?
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2019, 07:14:04 PM »
OK.... die arrived late Saturday. I'm working on discovering the secrets.
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Offline Wobbly

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Re: What's the best/smoothest 9mm taper crimp die?
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2019, 11:15:21 AM »
So here's what I'm seeing....

• STRAIGHT WALL
The Redding taper crimp die for 40S&W and other straight walled cartridges seems to be precisely machined to the correct diameter, fitting over most of the length of the cartridge brass. In this way their TCD acts as a "bulge buster", by removing any case irregularities (at least in the area of the bullet). In this way it is much like the Lee FCD.

The Redding TCD (below) is a one-piece die, simple to construct as long as you can hold the tolerances. The user simply locks the die into place after the adjustment is made. As long as some lubricant is supplied and the die kept clean, everyone is happy.



The Lee FCD does these same actions in 2 steps. First with a carbide ring to slide over the cartridge case to do the "bulge busting", and a second adjustable crimp setting within the die to adjust the crimp diameter. This is more complicated in construction, but less expensive to manufacture. And, being multi-part, the die can come out of adjustment during use.



But everything is fine with either method as long as the case wall remains straight.

• TAPER WALL
Problems enter the picture when you get to 9x19mm Luger (and all subsequent 9mm siblings). The problem is that the Luger has a 0.6° taper (1.2° total) designed into the external wall of the cartridge case. This slight taper messes up everything. There is no way to slide a fixed diameter over the length of the case and have it act upon the entire length of the case. And it is very, very difficult to construct a carbide ring with a tapered ID to do part of this work. Even if you could, you'd need to be certain which way the ring got installed. Tapers simply introduce a lot of trouble.

I was hoping that Redding had somehow figured out how to overcome these issues. However, on close inspection, apparently Redding does it the same way Dillon and Hornady do it. They slide a die with a conical interior over the cartridge. The interior is very slightly tapered, something on the order of 5-7°. This leaves a long, graceful taper crimp, but one that does not contact the entire length of the cartridge. The effect is a long taper crimp affecting about 0.1" of the case, starting at the case mouth and working back toward the head. The Dillon seems to be slightly steeper angle, which makes contact with about half that length. There is no bullet contact as the "through hole" of the die is about 0.370".

The Lee taper crimp die does this same thing, only with a much steeper angle. Since the angle is steeper, much less of the cartridge case mouth is acted upon, meaning that much shorter length of the die interior has to be micro-finished (polished). Steeper angle also means that case length has a greater effect upon the finished taper crimp.



So as to the question: What's the smoothest taper crimp die ? I would have to say the Redding seems to be very, very good. It is constructed from very high quality materials using a very slight internal angle. This results in a very satisfying ("smooth") looking and feeling TC that is not as affected by case length. However, having more case contact area it will require some slight amount of lube to be present.

However, if you are currently using a Dillon or Hornady taper crimp die, I cannot say that you will see differences worth the added $40 cost of the Redding. It's better than the Lee TCD, but again, probably not worth the price difference. That is, unless you're looking for more consistent crimp results on mixed length brass.

 ;)
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 02:43:10 PM by Wobbly »
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