Author Topic: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?  (Read 2295 times)

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Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
« on: January 02, 2019, 07:08:44 PM »
I have my ideas but have never asked or seen this asked specifically.

If we have sizing dies that are supposed to re-size our brass, then why would there be a need for the Lee FCD.

According to their site:
Quote
A carbide sizer inside the Carbide Factory Crimp die post-sizes the cartridge while it is crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability.
https://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/hand-gun-dies/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die


Is this just to deal with chambers that have poor support for the brass and cause bulging? Why wouldn't that be something sizing dies take care of? Or are there better sizing dies out that that do size all the way down the case and take care of this?


Just wanted to hear what ya'll have to say and teach about this?
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Offline painter

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Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2019, 07:26:00 PM »
JMO...

It's for reloaders that can't build a round that will chamber.

No disrespect to the A man intended. i know he uses that die.
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Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2019, 07:39:29 PM »
JMO...

It's for reloaders that can't build a round that will chamber.

Is this implying that a properly set up sizing die will effectively size and the FCD is thereby not necessary?

IF so is there variability of the sizing dies across brands that would lead to poor sizing and the requirement of the FCD is someone doesn't realize they have a terrible sizing die?
"In God I trust. All others must supply data."

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2019, 07:53:38 PM »

If we have sizing dies that are supposed to re-size our brass, then why would there be a need for the Lee FCD.


Lee sizing dies are so shoddy that they need a second one at the end to make things right.   O0  ;) ;) ;)

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2019, 07:54:49 PM »
I think it came from those loading un-sized lead bullets. Those, and sometimes even the sized ones, will leave a bump on the side of the brass that will keep the finished cartridge from chambering. It's rare, but it happens. So they decided to add a carbide ring to the TC die to iron out the cartridge walls as the last step.

It sounds good in theory, but it causes as many problems as it repairs.
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Offline IDescribe

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Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2019, 07:57:41 PM »

According to their site:
Quote
A carbide sizer inside the Carbide Factory Crimp die post-sizes the cartridge while it is crimped so every round will positively chamber freely with factory like dependability.


Fired, unsized cases positively chamber.  This is how we do Wobbly's push test.  ;) 


Offline painter

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Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2019, 06:45:08 AM »
JMO...

It's for reloaders that can't build a round that will chamber.

Is this implying that a properly set up sizing die will effectively size and the FCD is thereby not necessary?

IF so is there variability of the sizing dies across brands that would lead to poor sizing and the requirement of the FCD is someone doesn't realize they have a terrible sizing die?
Absolutely! I load Berry's 124 gr HBRN in cases sized with a Lyman die. I use a single stage press, and don't expand the cases. After seating my rounds are done, and I've never had a single round not chamber.

If you expand cases you need to crimp to remove any remaining bell, you shouldn't need to touch anything but the case mouth.
I had the right to remain silent...

but not the ability.

Offline Ruber

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Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2019, 12:35:18 PM »
I agree with Painter.  In my mind, the FCD exists to make money off of people who for one reason or another introduce slop into their process. It could be that it is a cheap and easy alternative to being precise and meticulous.

Personally, I handload not to simply save on cost, but also to produce higher quality ammo than I can get in a store.  So for me, the FCD has no place on the bench.

I do know people who use them churning out thousands of budget handloads and I get it, that?s just not my style.

Offline Radom

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Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2019, 05:10:20 PM »
I think it came from those loading un-sized lead bullets. Those, and sometimes even the sized ones, will leave a bump on the side of the brass that will keep the finished cartridge from chambering. It's rare, but it happens. So they decided to add a carbide ring to the TC die to iron out the cartridge walls as the last step.

It sounds good in theory, but it causes as many problems as it repairs.

IMHO, the main reason that the Lee FCD exists is that reloaded 9mm cartridges don't look "pretty."  If you look closely at factory 9mm cartridges, they don't look "pretty," either.  Even the factory cartridges have an area about halfway up the case where the inherent taper flares out to the diameter of the bearing surface. 

With the Lee FCD, running an otherwise perfect revolver load through the die (the bullet already tapered properly within the crimping groove) tends to compress the mouth and ruin the original crimp.     

The old saying is that if you only have a hammer, then every problem looks like a nail.   


EDIT: I sort of forgot why I originally quoted Wobbly.  There was once a mentality that sizing lead bullets only really mattered for Magnum chamberings, because people weren't casting for semis other than .45 ACP.  (You can get away with a lot of slop in .38 Special, even though I don't recommend it.)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 07:43:32 PM by Radom »
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Offline zhuk

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Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2019, 04:22:24 PM »
Certain Dillon progressive presses can be notorious for not resizing the full length of the case, unlike other dies. My square deal has this issue (compared to the 550/650/1050 you cannot remove the dies and swap them for other brands) so in this case the Lee FCD is invaluable if the bulged cases prevent proper chambering.

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2019, 07:52:18 PM »
My square deal has this issue (compared to the 550/650/1050 you cannot remove the dies and swap them for other brands) so in this case the Lee FCD is invaluable if the bulged cases prevent proper chambering.

This doesn't make sense.  If your press doesn't take other brand dies, how do you use the Lee FCD?

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2019, 08:22:12 AM »
Certain Dillon progressive presses can be notorious for not resizing the full length of the case, unlike other dies.

No press on the market sizes the full length of the case due to the shell holder blocking access to the head of the case. Progressives are even worse because they need more of a lead-in ramp (or internal flare) built into the Sizing Die's mouth. I was not aware that the Dillon SDB's gave any more or less coverage with their special dies. Due to these inherent design constraints, the Sizing Die needs to come as far down as possible without upsetting the press ram/platen as it raises the shell to the dies.

I would say to check your clearance between the die mouth and shell holder. On all machines, the Sizing Die's position is set first, then all other dies are set relative to that die.


My [Dillon] Square Deal has this issue (compared to the 550/650/1050 you cannot remove the dies and swap them for other brands) so in this case the Lee FCD is invaluable if the bulged cases prevent proper chambering.

If you've got a bulged case after loading, then chances are you had a severely bulged case before you started. Such cases are from guns with unsupported chambers, and not a CZ. So we must be talking about "range pick up brass".

I use range pick up myself, but generally find that under scrutiny, 1 in 10 new pieces are not worthy of reloading. You've got to check for Berdan primers, steel cases, and internally stepped cases, so while it's in your hand why not simply check for this bulging ?

I'm sensitive to your subject, but of the 2 SBD's I've owned, and all the hundreds of SDB owners I've talked to, you're the first to say this.

 ;)
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Offline zhuk

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Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2019, 02:03:01 AM »
My square deal has this issue (compared to the 550/650/1050 you cannot remove the dies and swap them for other brands) so in this case the Lee FCD is invaluable if the bulged cases prevent proper chambering.

This doesn't make sense.  If your press doesn't take other brand dies, how do you use the Lee FCD?

You use it after the fact on a single stage press.

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2019, 07:50:09 AM »
My square deal has this issue (compared to the 550/650/1050 you cannot remove the dies and swap them for other brands) so in this case the Lee FCD is invaluable if the bulged cases prevent proper chambering.

This doesn't make sense.  If your press doesn't take other brand dies, how do you use the Lee FCD?

You use it after the fact on a single stage press.

Then it's not invaluable.  If you are going to a single stage press anyway, you'd be better off using a decent sizing die in the single stage to size the cases properly to begin with, making the FCD useless in that regard, and avoiding the pitfalls of teh FCD altogether.

Offline 1SOW

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Re: Why does the 9mm Lee FCD Exist?
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2019, 04:41:55 PM »
ID + 1 in that situation!