Author Topic: Do these wear marks mean the timing is off?  (Read 743 times)

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Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Do these wear marks mean the timing is off?
« on: January 05, 2019, 11:45:44 PM »
My buddy trades into a used SP-01 (Manuel safety) and sorta gave it to me... Not totally sure but... It’s in my possession and I couldn’t help myself but to break it down and start some work.

When I took apart the slide and inspected the parts I noticed some unusual wear on the faces that interact on the firing pin and firing pin block. It looks like the edges have worn down/been beveled. The only thing I can think would cause this is the timing being off. Maybe the lifter arm is off...? Out of spec firing pin block? Or out of spec firing pin?

The faces that the yellow arrows are point towards also have some wear that I haven’t really noticed before. Easy solution but are those possibly indications of something out of spec?

Have any of you seen this before? I have some ideas for testing and solutions but I wanted to hear what ya’ll think or have encountered. Thanks for any and all help!

PS the second pic isn’t loading in tapatalk... working on a solution.






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Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: Do these wear marks mean the timing is off?
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2019, 11:58:35 PM »
Testing second image

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Offline Tok36

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Re: Do these wear marks mean the timing is off?
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2019, 12:30:44 AM »
Your assumptions seam reasonable to me, an out of spec part could be the cause. The next question is which one and how would you tell.

I am less clear on the marks with the yellow arrows. I am unsure but these may be normal marks from the FP moving. I lack experience in working on used CZs. Out of my CZs the one with the highest round count is my SP-01 with around 10k through it, i will pull the FP tomorrow, take a look at the slide parts and report back.

What year of manufacture is this pistol?

Another question is what is the shallow notch on the FP to the rear of the FPB notch? I do not believe that i have noticed that before.

I am also interested to hear other forum members input on the subject.
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Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: Do these wear marks mean the timing is off?
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2019, 12:36:41 AM »
Your assumptions seam reasonable to me, an out of spec part could be the cause. The next question is which one and how would you tell.

I am less clear on the marks with the yellow arrows. I am unsure but these may be normal marks from the FP moving. I lack experience in working on used CZs. Out of my CZs the one with the highest round count is my SP-01 with around 10k through it, i will pull the FP tomorrow, take a look at the slide parts and report back.

What year of manufacture is this pistol?

I am interested to hear other forum members input on the subject.

Highest round count is my SP-01 as well but I’ve removed the FPB... appreciate you checking yours!

Year of manufacture is 2016. It doesn’t seem to have many rounds through it based on other areas like the slide stop, locking lugs, sear face that interacts with the hammer, etc. I couldn’t imagine more than 1,000 rounds and that is being generous. It looks closer to 500 rounds.
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Offline Tok36

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Re: Do these wear marks mean the timing is off?
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2019, 12:46:07 AM »
Your assumptions seam reasonable to me, an out of spec part could be the cause. The next question is which one and how would you tell.

I am less clear on the marks with the yellow arrows. I am unsure but these may be normal marks from the FP moving. I lack experience in working on used CZs. Out of my CZs the one with the highest round count is my SP-01 with around 10k through it, i will pull the FP tomorrow, take a look at the slide parts and report back.

What year of manufacture is this pistol?

I am interested to hear other forum members input on the subject.

Highest round count is my SP-01 as well but I’ve removed the FPB... appreciate you checking yours!

Year of manufacture is 2016. It doesn’t seem to have many rounds through it based on other areas like the slide stop, locking lugs, sear face that interacts with the hammer, etc. I couldn’t imagine more than 1,000 rounds and that is being generous. It looks closer to 500 rounds.

Arg! Good point my SP-01 also has the FPB removed..... I think it made it to around 5k before i pulled the FBP so there may still be something to look at.  Interesting that is it dose not look like it has been used much. From what i have seen inside my CZs it would not shock me if the parts looked like that before they were installed at the factory. ;D (kidding) It looks like the marks on the FPB and the FP coincide though. Other than a timeing issue or out of spec part i can not think of how that could happen.

Edit: I examined 4 lightly used FPs that i have pulled out of my safety models and they all have marks in the same place as the FP in your picture to varying degrees. Although i am unclear as to the exact cause of these marks i am going to call that normal.

As to the yellow arrow marks on the FPB, the FPB out of my SP-01 also has these marks. I seams to be a product of the FP moving when it is struck by the hammer. My FPB also had a very slight mark where the FPB catches the FP but it dose not have the amount of deformation that is present on the FPB pictured. So i figure it could be an odd part, or one of the causes that you suggested.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2019, 01:02:21 AM by Tok36 »
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Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: Do these wear marks mean the timing is off?
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2019, 01:10:47 AM »
Posted this is a FB group and Stuart and Scott responded. Both said it is out of timing. Easiest solution was to relieve that face down on the firing pin block so it clears the firing pin in time.

I showed them pics of the trigger bar where the face presses on the lifter arm but there wasn’t material removal so that was not a cause.

I’ve got spare firing pins, blocks, and lifter arms. I’m going to pull others from my stash and still relieve the new block. Once I polish it up I’ll get it back together and test it.

A part of me wonders if the DA timing is off. Maybe the trigger bar is breaking from the disconnector too soon. I’ll check those faces again.
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Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Do these wear marks mean the timing is off?
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2019, 08:01:18 AM »
Not common, I suppose, but a very good reminder for those who will pay attention to it, just how complicated all the little parts are and how each can affect the operation with others that in turn affect the operation of the pistol.

Makes me less inclined to get upset with CZ if a new pistol proves, over time, to have an issue.

Why?  Because an issue like this might not show up during the limited testing/test firing done at the factory since the pistol functions fine but is slowing damaging parts inside.  I'll bet a lot people buy a new CZ and never put 500 rounds through it while they own it. 

The only way you'd catch this early is to detail disassemble for upgrading (or plain old curiosity).  Otherwise it might "wear in" and you'd never know or it might fail at some point and be found during detail disassembly for repairs.

Thanks for sharing this, bringing it up for discussion so others can take note and learn.
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Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: Do these wear marks mean the timing is off?
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2019, 03:29:59 PM »
It definitely wouldn’t show up initially and I am beginning to wonder if it comes from slow DA pulls. DA breaks before SA. If the firing pin block clears the firing pin when the trigger is pulled back into SA then a full trigger pull is required. If we’re pulling slow on DA and the hammer falls but we don’t pull the trigger all the way though or we do so slowly, then this might be causing the firing pin to clip that edge of the block. This would be amplified if some tolerance stacking is in play. Just my thoughts as I have been thinking through all the pistols I’ve modified and tested to make sure the firing pin block is lifted before the SA breaks and the hammer falls.
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Offline sniperboy

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Re: Do these wear marks mean the timing is off?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2019, 01:21:27 PM »
...tested to make sure the firing pin block is lifted before the SA breaks and the hammer falls.

I am apprehensive to mention it since I am confident you have more knowledge than me Scarlett.  You've been super helpful in the past for all I know now.. : )

If I am reading your post above, you have visually confirmed that the SA lifter arm is lifting the firing pin safety plunger before the hammer drops right?  I have seen this wear marks on my SP-01 in the past - I had a "false reset" syndrome where the pistol would reset the trigger and let the hammer drop but would NOT activate the lifter arm.

The end result was a beat up firing pin that no longer worked with the block.

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: Do these wear marks mean the timing is off?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2019, 02:53:48 PM »
...tested to make sure the firing pin block is lifted before the SA breaks and the hammer falls.

I am apprehensive to mention it since I am confident you have more knowledge than me Scarlett.  You've been super helpful in the past for all I know now.. : )

If I am reading your post above, you have visually confirmed that the SA lifter arm is lifting the firing pin safety plunger before the hammer drops right?  I have seen this wear marks on my SP-01 in the past - I had a "false reset" syndrome where the pistol would reset the trigger and let the hammer drop but would NOT activate the lifter arm.

The end result was a beat up firing pin that no longer worked with the block.

You never have to feel apprehensive to bring up an insight on one of my posts. That’s a great point and question!

I have had that issue as well. Especially after I totally disassemble the pistol and remove the trigger bar lifter spring. When I was dry firing and testing this pistol I did not encounter a false reset as I watched the lifter arm raise the block. BUT for anyone reading this thread I should have included the fact that this should be tested when you’re checking your pistol before you break it down. Thank you for bringing this up sniperboy!
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Offline copemech

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Re: Do these wear marks mean the timing is off?
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2019, 08:09:15 PM »
looks like you need some CGW parts! O0

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: Do these wear marks mean the timing is off?
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2019, 08:59:10 PM »
No kidding
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Offline Underwhere

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Re: Do these wear marks mean the timing is off?
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2019, 10:17:24 PM »
Late reply.
You can test the timing by using a q-tip

Go to SA and push on the back of the firing pin with the q-tip with fuzz removed.

You'll feel resistance which is the FPB.

Pull the trigger slowly with one finger and continue to poke the FPB. If you can somehow manage to get the trigger to break and catch the hammer from falling you can determine if the firing pin is making it completely past the FPB without interference.

Then you can relieve the FPB and re-test using this method until thr FPB opens up just a tiny bit before SA break.

When I adjust timing I don't bother using the firing pin retaining pin. I shove a roll pin in there because it's much faster to assemble and disassemble. Just don't dry fire with a roll pin in place.