Help me start reloading

[M1A4ME]

I have Pacific and RCBS single stage presses.  I have one of the Lee "progressive" presses - the one in your example/link.  If/when I buy another press for one of the boys that shows me they will reload, it'll be another Lee just like that one.

Why?  I can set up the dies from one caliber in the removable disc and change calibers as quickly as removing/replacing the disc and the shell holder.  I don't use it as a progressive.  I use it as a more flexible single stage press.  I set the dies up once.  Not every time I go from resizing to seating to crimping (if you're a crimper - I don't crimp on rifle bullets, just pistol bullets).

It sure has saved me time/heart burn using it that way.  The discs run about $10 or $12 each.

I've not heard good things about the Lee powder scale.  I use an RCBS powder scale.

I've bought a Lee powder measure as I heard the worked better with IMR type rifle powders.  Well, mine doesn't.  I gave it to my youngest son in case he starts reloading, some day (he uses H335 in his .223 reloading).

You can buy a cheap case trimmer (the little Lee models that you can chuck up in a drill) or an expensive unit, like my old one (don't remember the name, but it's gold and black).  I will say the Lee cutters don't seem to last too long while the more expensive unit lasted many years before I had to replace the cutter head.

You'll want the calipers for measuring brass before/after trimming.  You'll want a little case mouth deburring/chamfering tool (I like the Lyman units).

You'll want a tray to hold the brass as you drop the powder in it or set bullets in the case mouth.  I use old plastic shell boxes/trays from pistol/handgun ammo for everything but 9MM brass (too short - have to use a standard case tray for those (but I keep thinking, when I'm sitting in here, that I need to put an old plastic cartridge box tray on the belt sander and shorten it some so I could use it for 9MM.)

I've honestly only used a case/ammo checker a couple times when I had chambering issues with new AR15 builds. 

I used to use two powder scales.  Just felt better if I could double weigh charges now and then to make sure the one I used mostly was staying calibrated/trustworthy.  Not saying it's necessary, just that it was easier for me than trying to keep track of some check weights.

Reloading manuals.  Yes, you can get reloading data off the bullet/powder makers websites but there's a lot of good "how to" info in the reloading manuals.  After all these years I still like my Lyman manuals better than Speer, Hornady, Sierra and Lee manuals.  Just a lot of good info in the Lyman manuals.

A log book.  I just use a medium sized spiral notebook.  One side is handgun ammo and the other is rifle ammo (one side is accessed from the front cover, the other from the back cover - just start either one from the front or back and you only have to flip the one book as you record data from current loading or want to go back and check data from previous loading.)  After awhile you'll have your favorite loads memorized but you're not writing them down just for the powder charge/primer/bullet info.

I also record the loading data on a small piece of paper/cardboard (use scissors to cut up the empty primer boxes/covers) and put those in the container with the ammo so I can see when it was loaded, what the bullet/primer/powder/powder charge/overall length, date loaded and the number of rounds in the container.

[cdhbrad]

You'll need a set of calipers for measuring, if not included in the kit, and a kinetic hammer to disassemble the inevitable errors.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Electronic-Gauge-Stainless-Steel-Vernier-Caliper-150mm-6inch-Micrometer/112264269430?epid=1939339827&hash=item1a2378ce76:g:3CoAAOSwJQdW-IFq:rk:6:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/p/Frankford-Arsenal-836017/1223790929?iid=401537908968&chn=ps

Hornady Kit has both of those items, it?s pretty complete if you look at the picture in the link.  Even includes Bullet comparators, etc. and reloading manual.

[Earl Keese]

I caught a sale on a Rock Chucker Supreme. After rebate it was $84. When a chucker is this cheap, there's no reason to settle for a Lee. For rifle loading, I much prefer a single stage to a progressive and I use my beam scale(Ohaus) much more frequently than my digital.

[painter]

You'll need a set of calipers for measuring, if not included in the kit, and a kinetic hammer to disassemble the inevitable errors.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Electronic-Gauge-Stainless-Steel-Vernier-Caliper-150mm-6inch-Micrometer/112264269430?epid=1939339827&hash=item1a2378ce76:g:3CoAAOSwJQdW-IFq:rk:6:pf:0

https://www.ebay.com/p/Frankford-Arsenal-836017/1223790929?iid=401537908968&chn=ps

Hornady Kit has both of those items, it?s pretty complete if you look at the picture in the link.  Even includes Bullet comparators, etc. and reloading manual.

I looked...but my eyes aren't what they once were..

Sounds like he's good.

[Wobbly]

? I think the first thing to do is determine how serious you really are. If you just want to "test the waters", then you can't beat Lee equipment for outright value. The problem is, the "value" is delivered by being minimal quality. If you are, or you get, really serious about reloading you'll start replacing pieces of the Lee kit within 2 months. Within 2 years you'll have replaced 90% of what you bought with better quality equipment... either to get better results or because the Lee part simply broke. The only parts remaining at the end of 4 years will be the Lee dies... which are good. So do you want to go in cheap and buy everything twice, or is shooting 45-70 the love of your life and you want to "do it right" ?

? Rifle reloading takes more equipment than pistol reloading. There are 2 ways to get all this equipment.... buy a "starter kit", or buy someone's used complete setup off CraigsList. Be aware that even the "starter kits" are incomplete.

? Rifle reloading also takes a lot more force, so you need a very robust single-stage press. Most reloading equipment is built for pistol reloading, since that's about 80% of the reloading market. IMHO, the 3 most robust and modern single-stage presses are (in no particular order)...
 ? MEC Marksman
 ? Redding Big Boss II
 ? Redding T7 turret

These are followed by a host of "old standards" most of which were designed long ago. (Rifle reloading really hasn't changed since about 1970.) The leader of the "legacy" presses is unquestionably the RCBS Rock Chucker. (Don't confuse this with the Rock Chucker Jr.) The Hornady LNL Classic is in this later group along with the presses from Lyman and several others.

? You need a way to weigh powder accurately. Don't confuse quickly with accurately. Your first scale should either be a Dillon Eliminator or an RCBS 505, which are the same scale made by Ohaus. These are trustworthy scales capable of lasting 25+ years. Scales are absolutely NOT the place to try and save money.

? You need a way to dispense powder accurately. This means you want a powder measure with a metallic body to transfer helpful vibration and dissipate unhelpful static electricity. RCBS, Hornady, Redding, Lyman and others have all made great powder measures since ~1970. Buy or find a nice used one. Then build or buy a free-standing powder measure stand, such as the one shown below, so it can be moved from "center stage" when not in use.



? You'll also need a case trimmer. This is another area you can spend $30 up to $300 if you want, depending on hand operated or fully motorized. If you already own a drill motor, then often times you can use that to "motorize" your trimmer and save some money. Here's my setup...



Again, it's a basic trimmer independently mounted so it can be moved out of the way when it's usefulness is over.

? Then you need a set of dies for each caliber you'll be reloading. Lee is base line. Redding are probably the best.


There's a huge pile of additional equipment you need, including a first rate manual. I have a complete list here somewhere. I'll look for it and try to post it. In the meantime, look for a PM from me. I have a lot of this equipment surplus.

 

[cdhbrad]

No love ?? for the Forster Co-Ax.?  Great press IMHO.  Easier die changes than any mentioned above, especially when paired with Whidden or Forster dies.

[Scoose]

Necessities:

A scale to measure loads ( buy a good one )
Dial calipers to check case length and OAL
Kinetic hammer
Case trimmer
Deburring tool
Case lube ( rifle loads)
A LOADING MANUAL!!!
Patience

[aasbra]

No love [emoji3590] for the Forster Co-Ax.?  Great press IMHO.  Easier die changes than any mentioned above, especially when paired with Whidden or Forster dies.

The co ax is what I use for single stage work, and I really like it.  It is a great press, but for someone just starting out, you can pick up a good used rockchucker for about 1/3 the cost.  You can  probably get all your $ back selling the used rockchucker if you later decide that you want to go deeper $ into reloading and get a co ax (I did). 

I still have an old rockchucker set up with a decapping die for removing spent primers (the dirty work).  Both are great presses, but I do prefer the co ax for ease of die swaps, the way the shell holder works, and how the die ?floats? in the press.


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[cdhbrad]

I was just referring to the presses Wobbly mentioned.  For 45/70 or 223, a CO-Ax is probably overkill, though I do use my Co-Ax on my more precision.223 Rem loads.
Of the two kits listed by the OP, I would still take the Hornady over the Lee and fill in the missing parts...case trimming?., as needed.

[Grendel]

Thanks guys, keep it coming, I'm taking notes!

[Earl Keese]

No love ?? for the Forster Co-Ax.?  Great press IMHO.  Easier die changes than any mentioned above, especially when paired with Whidden or Forster dies.

We'll, he did mention budget was a concern.

[Wobbly]

No love ?? for the Forster Co-Ax.?  Great press IMHO. 

Sure, if he was going to do something like Palma Matches with his 45-70. It's a great press with very high accuracy. More in the "professional" range than novice reloader.

Easier die changes than any mentioned above, especially when paired with Whidden or Forster dies.

Actually, that's not a wholly true statement. We did mention the Redding T7 which can hold all the dies for BOTH 45-70 and 223 Rem... and even 9x19 Luger... which negates the need to physically remove and replace dies at all. With the T7 a "die change" consists solely of rotating the turret. You're totally finished in 4 seconds. No chasing the dies and removing them from the box. No follow-on setup or testing. No hunting for a place to set the dies that came out of the press.

 

[Wobbly]

I couldn't find the list I made years ago. Had to make up another, so this list may not be as complete as the older one. Your corrections and suggestions sought.....


Genesis
On the eight day there was brass left after shooting.  And Eve said, "You're messing up The Garden by leaving this brass everywhere."  And Adam said, "I should recycle this brass by refilling the spent components."  And God said, "This is good."  Ever since then it's been necessary to have new or spent brass to reload.  Good, usable brass is the basis for every reloading story.  Go ye and do likewise.

Consumable Components
? Bullets  (of the correct weight, type and caliber)
? Powder  (of the correct type and in sufficient quantity)
? Boxer Primers  (of the correct type and in sufficient quantity)

Basic Equipment
? Press  (to hold the dies and force the case to re-form)
? Dies  (a die set for each particular caliber)
? Shell Holder  (to hold the head of the case securely, sometimes included with the dies)
? Manual  (a good quality reloading manual with instructions and load data)
? Reloading Notebook  (used to record load data and results)
? Bench  (sturdy table or workbench for press mounting)

Powder Dispensing
? Scale  (to weigh the powder)
? Powder Measure  (to make dispensing powder easier, faster, and safer)

Physical Measurement
? 6" Handheld Caliper  (nice digital units for $12 from Harbor Freight)
? 0-1" Micrometer  (often nice to have for more precise measurements)

Additional for Rifle
? Case Trimmer  (used to cut rifle cases back down to proper length)
? Case Lube  (lubricant to make case sizing manageable)


Nice Accessories
Some accessories ease the process and usually speed things up, some simply help make a prettier product.  Not necessary to start, but at some point in your reloading career you'll say to yourself, "Dang, I wish I had..."
? Kinetic hammer or "Bullet Puller"  (helps to unload assembled rounds)
? Case cleaning equipment, such as a rotary tumbler
? Extra reloading lamps, either overhead, bench, or press-mounted
? Check Weights  (to verify any digital powder scale readings)
? Loading Block(s)  (to organize the cases for powder dispensing)
? Plastic buckets and cans  (to organize the cases during the reloading process)
? Case Prep Tools  (to deburr cases after being trimmed and help clean primer pockets)
? Plastic Ammo Boxes  (to organize and store finished rounds)


 

[CzechnoWizard]

I'm late to the party but I have a hard time being quiet!

1) OP says he wants to load 45-70 and .223. That's a awfully wide span.
        Usually 45-70 is going to be small qty with the goal of saving money and being able to craft a much wider variety of ammo than what's commercially available. It's straight wall, head spaces off the rim and cases do not seem to grow or require much trimming.  A basic single stage press with simple lee dies and a factory crimp die will make good ammo and will not be fussy about case length. (He does need to know that hornady cases are bastard length).
   233 usually means either varmint rounds or he's feeding an ar. He's going to want extremely accurate powder measurement and bullet seating or he will want mucho quantity.  This could well require a progressive before it's over. Best to learn the basic steps on another cartridge and then move up to the 223. 223 is bottle necked so sizing is much more finicky. An ar shooter will want to full length size while a varminter may neck size. Cases MUST be trimmed and lubed and a Wilson case gage is bleep near a necessity to ensure you get it all correct. Primer pockets are likely to be crimped and he will need a means to ream or swage.

I would suggest learning basic reloading in person with a trusted mentor before spending the 1st dollar on equipment.

2) someone mentioned buying an inexpensive digital scale and foregoing the beam balance. Bad idea. I use an inexpensive hornady digital for convenience but you absolutely need a beam to verify. The digitals will lie to you depending on battery state, a few degrees of temperature, or a slight draft. They will show reasonably close on the 100 or 500 grain check weights that are usually provided but they can be significantly off down at the 5 grains in a pistol list or 13 in a cowboy load. Some fast powders have just a few tenths between too little and over max. Always check your digital against a mechanical and learn its quirks. They all have quirks.

3) if you only buy one manual get the Lee book. It looks like a bible for a reason. Load data is now available free on hodgdon site and the no cost basic printed manuals form powder mfr have enough data to keep a beginner busy. Never use data from them interwebs except direct from powder company site. Sense check the data against other known good info. If the load seems out of line assume there is a typo.  Start low and work up. Do not succumb to the temptation to try and make the 1st cartridge you load achieve your velocity goal. Consider a chronometer if you are not skilled in recognizing pressure signs. Most of us should be testing over a chrono if we actually want facts and data instead of guesses and fish-tales.

4) listen to wobbly.

[M1A4ME]

Sorry, if someone previously mentioned it...but don't .223 Rem. and 45-70 share some of the same powders?  Seems like, a long time ago, I read some articles on the .45-70 and was surprised that I used some of those powders for my .223 reloading.  Something to do with burn rates and pressure curves in straight vs. bottle necked cases.

Just checked one website (Hogdgon powder).  They list H322, H335, H4198 and IMR4198 for both calibers.  Should be similar for other powder manufacturers but you'll have to check their websites.  Might cut down on powder selection/costs if you find good loads for both with the same powders.