Author Topic: SP-01 standard vs tactical decocker  (Read 10412 times)

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Offline larry8061

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Re: SP-01 standard vs tactical decocker
« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2019, 12:07:11 PM »
I will try and clarify my post (in no particular order).

I am curious how someone got to the conclusion that I thought if there was a safety on the gun it HAD to be used?  Even in Massachusetts that isn't the case. I will concede that I did assume that if someone were considering either gun that the safety gun was being purchased for the extra reassurance of the trigger not getting pulled when they did not want it pulled. 

The using of the safety (I am trying to save bandwidth and am paraphrasing) in the 1911 situation does indeed state the safety is on.  Which goes back to my original question which was "will you remember to flip the safety off"?  I'd further suggest that if someone was going between safety on safety off my question would be even more relevant.

To the easier/not easier point (safety vs. decocker) my gunsmith would argue that point as would a number of posts also on this list.  The 2 counter wound tiny springs on the decocker  and not on the safety model are not easy to deal with.

Accurate vs. in accurate information. Where did I offer inaccurate information?  I simply asked a couple of questions and offered an opinion.

Where did I stipulate that if one were to buy a safety model gun they HAD to use the safety?

Should we not correct misinformation when we see it because someone might take as a personal attack.  Again I ask where the misinformation is?  YOU asserted I had a misconception (not true) and you had no information to come to that conclusion either.

I am not concerned about the percentage of welcoming versus not welcoming boards.  I came over from the old SIG board where people were actually not verbally welcomed and all information was appreciated.  Unfortunately that all came to an end when the Canadians bought the forum. (and I changed brands)

50 years vs new person.  It is a "non-issue" yes for a person who has been doing something for 50 years.  It is not a "non-issue" for someone new.

Simply people attempting to reinforce their own personal purchase decision because everybody everywhere thinks that what they think or want is correct and everyone else that doesn't follow suit is somehow wrong.  I made NO suggestion as to which version to buy. I was going to add that line but decided against it as thinking it was redundant.  I started with Sigs and yes MY preference is decockers.  If someone else wants to carry cocked and locked WITH a safety knock your socks off. AGAIN I will concede my mistake of not being clearer but, it still gets back to the QUESTION (not dictum) IF you use a safety will you remember to click it off?

We may all be on the same team however, the 3 posts following mine are not welcoming (to say the least) and ALL of it is based on assumptions that are not in fact true. I also did not infer or suggest that there should be no choices.

Back to correcting my information.  Where did I stipulate the safety HAD to be used?  The question was if the safety is on will you remember to click it off?  The condition of the gun is irrelevant to keeping your finger out of the trigger guard (to a point).  It just happens to be even more important if you have a loaded gun with no physical safety (which was my way of suggesting that if the answer is no then the safety gun would be the better choice and NOT foisting any preconceived self aggrandizing motives.)

I will also concede that I did assume that someone about to spend essentially $700 understood how safeties worked. Predicated that we are trying to make this clear to even the dumbest of gun owners my question then becomes even more important: CAN YOU KEEP YOUR FINGER OUT OF THE TRIGGER GUARD (regardless of condition of the gun). Drawing a gun (either decocker or safety (with safety on OR off) with your finger in the trigger guard is DANGEROUS - PERIOD. 50 year experienced wise gun owner, Rocket scientist gun owner or the dumbest person in the world new to guns person YOUR FINGER CAN'T BE IN THE TRIGGER GUARD WHEN YOU DRAW.  However, at least with a manual safety (on) reduces the chances of shooting oneself in their own leg (again suggesting the purchase of the safety gun).

Back to the welcoming part of the emails.  The old SIG list (from where I come) had more posts in a day than this list has in at least a week and possibly a month, there is a reason for that. New opinions are NOT welcome and it comes thru routinely.  I happen to be old enough that I don't care.  But, this ought to generate what 7, 8 hostile re-buttls?

Larry

Offline MadDuner

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Re: SP-01 standard vs tactical decocker
« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2019, 12:27:27 PM »
I certainly hope nobody took my post as a hostile rebuttal.

Mine was a Cumbaya “we’re all on the same team” post - in gunspeak.

Offline Screwball

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Re: SP-01 standard vs tactical decocker
« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2019, 01:52:27 PM »
Personally, I rather a decocker on the slide or mounted forward... like a SIG. A control on the frame towards the hammer, I opt for a safety.

All of my Berettas were converted to G. The only gun that had a slide mounted safety was my 1006... but had the slide milled to TSW cut, so now it is decock only (had to add the correct assembly, though).

My SP-01... standard model with the safety. Really like that setup.

Offline tdogg

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Re: SP-01 standard vs tactical decocker
« Reply #48 on: July 28, 2019, 08:11:31 PM »
Alright.

The decocker trigger job is slightly more difficult initially but with a little practice is a non issue.   The extra 7 dollars you have to spend on a slave pin is a wash since you may have to either fit the sear or purchase an adjustable sear on the safety model.

In Uspsa production division competition, with a decocker, you can start at half cock (as when using the decocker to lower the hammer).  This is a slight advantage over having to start hammer fully down with the safety.  Practically the difference from hammer down and half cock is really small but the convenience factor of just activating the decocker is of value during make ready.   An AD is a DQ and the odds of an AD using the decocker are far less than manually lowering the hammer. 

I choose decockers for most all my cz's but now shoot limited with my TSO.  I was worried about the transition to a safety model and remembering the safety but it was a non issue.   Having an extended safety that my thumb rests on helps ensure the safety is disengaged.

The reality is the differences are small so pick what your more comfortable with.   You should never have you finger in the trigger guard unless your ready to shoot.

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Toby

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Offline eastman

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Re: SP-01 standard vs tactical decocker
« Reply #49 on: July 28, 2019, 09:24:48 PM »
This is a bigger issue of CZ vs clones, since the Tanfoglio safety can be activated (intentionally or not) when the hammer is down.
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Offline larryflew

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Re: SP-01 standard vs tactical decocker
« Reply #50 on: July 28, 2019, 10:13:58 PM »
It is actually pretty easy to decide.  If in a panic and you pull your gun are you going to remember to take the safety off? Can you ALWAYS get your gun out of the holster with your finger OUT of the trigger guard? You not getting shot and the bad guy getting shot is WAY more important than the hassle of the decocker spring issues (that's why they invented gunsmiths.)

Sorry if mine is one of those posts.

 I was trying to clarify why it would be easy to decide based on remembering a safety which safety guys have been doing for years. Have shot thousands of steel shoot rounds and am 100% sure I will never forget the safety just as your 1911 shooter won't forget either as that's what he is used to.  Just did not want a newby thinking the safety was at all involved in the drawing of a DA pistol situation and that a manually decocked DA/SA is exactly the same as one decocked with a decocker.

As far as you suggesting either type i believe "It is actually pretty easy to decide" infers that it is pretty easy to decide. But doesn't clarify why or which one.

I also was not sure how the trigger finger comment means anything in this context as either would be the same.  For those dumbest that you mentioned you do indeed need to keep that buger hook out of the trigger guard.  Not sure if that dummy is safer with cocked and locked or with a DA pull.

As someone who has never had any type of forum disagreement that was ever like this I can assure you my post was not meant to sound like i was disagreeing vs clarifying. If it sounded confrontational I am sorry.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2019, 10:25:00 PM by larryflew »
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Larry

Minnesota shooter
and CZ fanatic
NRA life since the 70's
USAF 66-70

Why use 911 when it's faster to use 1911 or 9mm?

Offline GBUS

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Re: SP-01 standard vs tactical decocker
« Reply #51 on: July 29, 2019, 01:15:43 AM »
This is a bigger issue of CZ vs clones, since the Tanfoglio safety can be activated (intentionally or not) when the hammer is down.


This is also the case for the Shadow Line where the safety can be engaged at half cock or full cock though not at full down, but since the OP was asking about the SP-01 and I was already trying to clarify the workings of that guns safety, I didn’t want to muddy the waters further by bringing up the shadow line.



I’m good with CZ’s DA/SA manual of arms for either their safety or decocker models because I carry both exactly the same, DA at half cock.
My preference in handguns is DA/SA w/ decocker for carry.
I’ve also had 18 Sigs starting in 1991 when I bought my first WG P226, so I think I’m pretty well versed with decockers.
Fast forward to today and an even number of my CZ’s are decocker models and by all means i think it’s a good choice for most people
That said, if you don’t have a personal preference and want the added versatility of being able to carry condition one and also in double action mode then it’s the safety model that fills that role.

Offline OldGringo

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Re: SP-01 standard vs tactical decocker
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2019, 03:57:15 AM »
 The eternal safety v decocker debate for carry is not really relevant here since the OP stated that he had no intention of carrying an SP-01 but wanted it for range use. After all the safety or decocker is only necessary when holstering. It really depends on how he wants to shoot.

Background: I own an SP-01 Tactical (decocker) with approximately 3000 rounds that I shoot at my range and in my local 2 gun match. The only modifications I've done to the pistol are 15lb Cajun Gunworks mainspring, Cajun Gunworks Dawson fiber optic front sight, and Mec-Gar 17 round magazines with +2 base plates. 

As I see it, for range use, there are advantages and disadvantages with each:

For safety only:

You potentially get a slightly better trigger out the box. Keep in mind that some individual pistols might have slightly nicer triggers than others. To properly judge a trigger before I consider any gunsmithing, I find it useful to put 500 rounds through the pistol which is a proper amount to get used to any new platform anyway.

The 75s and SP-01s with safeties seem to get a bit more "bang for your buck" when given proper trigger jobs. While the decockers also feel better, the improvements aren't quite as dramatic in my experience. That being said my SP-01 Tactical has a pretty nice broken-in trigger. Nice enough that I've never really considered a trigger job.

For decocker:

If you don't have much experience with DA/SA and want to gain proficiency, I find it useful to have a decocker since it's easy to practice transitions without having to manually drop the hammer on a loaded chamber. I know at least two people who also own SP-01s with safeties and they really don't have that experience in DA since they shoot the pistol in single action only.

If you ever wanted to get into local level matches (which I always recommend), it might be better to get the Tactical model. I'm by no means some expert, but I began shooting at a local match because I enjoy it and it makes me a better shooter. Even unmodified, an SP-01 is a great entry-level competition pistol. Now my local 2 gun match (pistol+carbine) is independent and thus you could run a safety only SP-01 cocked and locked if you wanted to. However, USPSA/IPSC (Production division), IDPA (Stock Service Pistol division), and some steel matches require all DA capable pistols to be shot from double action. Thus you have to manually decock on a loaded chamber pointed at at the berm when you make ready. If you happen to have a discharge (ND) you are disqualified (DQ). I personally saw this happen as a spectator at a local USPSA match with an individual who was relatively new to competition shooting with a Shadow 2 (they only come with safeties).

Ask yourself these questions:

Do you have experience and like single action only pistols (1911s)? - If yes, than safety.
Do you require the best trigger mechanically possible? If so, are you willing to spend the money to get it? Keep in mind that as nice as the SP-01 triggers can be, they will never be as crisp as a single-action-only because of the firing pin safety. - If yes, than safety.

Do you ever plan on holstering and drawing the pistol and want DA (for home defense for example). Or need proficiency in practicing different pulls of DA/SA? - If yes, than Tactical.
Do you ever plan on someday using your SP-01 in a match and you don't have much experience manually decocking? - If yes, than Tactical.

This is not exhaustive. Just a few questions to ask yourself what you want to do with the SP-01.

In conclusion: I guess for just range use it probably doesn't matter all that much in the greater scheme of things. After all, most ranges do not allow for holstering and drawing pistols anyway so it is possible to shoot thousands of rounds through an SP-01 from the bench in single action without either engaging a safety or decocking.

 







Offline glockholiday

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Re: SP-01 standard vs tactical decocker
« Reply #53 on: August 31, 2019, 11:42:10 AM »
I’ll tell you that from installing some Cgw goodies on my tactical and then working on the shadow 2..it’s like day and night..that sear cage is like the boogeyman on the tactical but once u get the hang of it the safety models are cake...