Author Topic: CZ P-09 Ransom Rest Results  (Read 1693 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Practical Shooter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 337
  • Life's just too short
Re: CZ P-09 Ransom Rest Results
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2019, 03:06:05 PM »
well that is true miracles can be worked with J-B weld! The ransom rest company makes inserts for almost all modern handguns, the polymer handguns have to be shot more to have them settle to be accurate, it takes I would say about 50 rounds for my guns to settle. The p-09 and p-07 ave a very tight slide to frame fit, unlike say a Glock which allows them to do better in a ransom rest.

Good to hear that, thanks

Offline Wmvdg123

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: CZ P-09 Ransom Rest Results
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2019, 04:58:24 PM »
No that's a good point, I probably should have mentioned that. If the mountain weren't directly behind the 200 yard target and the mountain iws part of the range, this wouldn't work you're right. I could see how it looks like a safety concern.

Offline Walt Sherrill

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
Re: CZ P-09 Ransom Rest Results
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2019, 07:38:29 PM »
In a discussion on the S&W forum, Randy Lee, the engineer/technician responsible for designing Apex's new S&W M&P Barrels -- which are getting stellar praise for accuracy --  talked about the process he goes through when designing a new barrel. 

He also uses Ransom Rests in the Apex testing and evaluation process, but does it in a less conventional manner;  because polymer frames can't always return to the same starting position after each shot, like a metal-framed gun can,  he sights each shot, but uses the RR to give a consistent pull (without human error) with each shot.  Other people testing and evaluating polymer-framed guns typically do this, too, when using a Ransom Rest.

Having an insert for the polymer-framed gun is critical, but even with that the Ransom Rest won't be as accurate as it could be with aimed shots.   

With semi-autos, it also makes sense to take the first shot OFF target, so that all shots are automatically fed consistently.   (Or more simply, don't mount the target until you've fired the first shot.)  The first round loaded manually, even if it's done by the slide being released sling-shot style, can lock up the barrel/slide assembly slightly differently than when it's done when powered by an earlier shot.   

If you haven't done this, try it again, and you might be even HAPPIER with your accuracy results.   You may find that you won't have to fire that many "prep" shots.   (With some po9lymer designs, 50-rounds may not be enough.)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 03:29:06 PM by Walt Sherrill »

Offline Wmvdg123

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: CZ P-09 Ransom Rest Results
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2019, 02:24:37 AM »
This is a a very interesting idea to aim the pistol and pull the trigger with the ransom rest. You are right this may be a more accurate way to test. I looked up Randy Lee's research, it seems that over 4 years he made some significant progress, resulting in 5 round groups of 1.86 in at 50 yards. It makes me grateful for CZ pistols with their innate accuracy, with a stock barrel you can see this gun shooting a 10-round group of 1.2 inches.

Offline Joe L

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5471
Re: CZ P-09 Ransom Rest Results
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2019, 09:02:43 AM »
Walt brings up some excellent points--and the reason why I have never felt handicapped by testing without a Ransom Rest.  But shooting well without the mechanical stabilization takes a lot of practice--it is another shooting discipline in my opinion.  I have seen the variation in first shot lock up with the P-10C but not with the other pistols, and the C seems to have less variation now that it is broken in. 

My opinion now, after many many rounds from a rest with a variety of very good guns, is that the biggest variable in group size for me is dot placement on the target.  I'm pretty good about not moving the gun as I pull the trigger (human Ransom Rest?) but I can't always place the dot in exactly the same position as the hammer drops.  I'm still learning.  Some days I am better than others.  Re-aiming after each shot in a Ransom Rest is certainly a good idea, and will take away a lot of variables while still keeping the trigger pull consistency and rock solid frame position of using the rest. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline Walt Sherrill

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
Re: CZ P-09 Ransom Rest Results
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2019, 03:39:05 PM »
Quote from: Wmvdg123
This is a a very interesting idea to aim the pistol and pull the trigger with the ransom rest. You are right this may be a more accurate way to test. I looked up Randy Lee's research, it seems that over 4 years he made some significant progress, resulting in 5 round groups of 1.86 in at 50 yards. It makes me grateful for CZ pistols with their innate accuracy, with a stock barrel you can see this gun shooting a 10-round group of 1.2 inches.

It was in that same discussion or a related one that Randy found, when investigating some unusual accuracy issues with the 9mm version of the M&P 1.0 models  (using very high speed digital photography), that the 9mm slide for the M&P (but not the .40 or .45 slides) was stretching just a bit as the round was starting down the barrel, so that lockup wasn't as tight or as snug as expected, which affected accuarcy.  He changed how the barrel lug connected with the frame to compensate for this a bit on the barrels for the 1.0 and 2.0 models.  The 2.0 version of the slide was changed by S&W to address the stretching.  (The metal in the slide in the chamber area was a bit less robust than the 40 and 45 slides.)  I would NEVER have expected that sort of design quirk, and its pretty clear that S&W's designers didn't notice it, either.   I have a M&P Pro (5") 9mm that is very accurate with all sorts of upgrades, and I'm seriously considering send it to Apex and have it upgraded with a new barrel, fit by their gunsmiths.  There's a guide to how to do that on the site on how to properly fit the M&P barrel that is very interesting.