Setting Up CZ 75 B SA for Bullseye

[Fuzzy Sights]

Looking for information on modifications to a 75 B SA to shoot bullseye.  Hoping to get information on trigger and grip modifications best suited for the sport.  Have a Kadet kit inbound and a sight replacement for a red dot.  Not sure which I should get, so information there would be appreciated.  Starting point on the new pistol is a 6.5 lb trigger pull that has considerable engagement.  It is not really creep, as it does not stack or have any real rough places; it just takes a long time to get through.  Naturally a nice 2-2.5 lb trigger that feels like a Hammerli 208, is probably asking a bit much, but I am sure I can get closer than what I have. 

Also any information on modifications to the 9mm top end would be appreciated.  Only thing I can think of is a CGW bushing, removal of Firing Pin Block, and put a red dot on it.  CZ target indicates that it is more than accurate enough with S&B ammo for the reduced 25 yd target.  Confidence is high I can beat it with reloads.  Please advise on anything I am missing.

Currently shoot falling plate with a Kadet 2 and can hold my own.  Want to get back to more formal competition and this seems a nice way to do it. 

Looking forward to all your sage like wisdom.  JoeL thank you for the inspiration...I tell my wife this is all your fault and show her your videos.  Dosen't do me any good she is still mad.

JW

[Boris_LA]

I like factory rubber grips on mine, but Hogue grips with finger grooves work well too.
As for trigger tune - CGW race hummer, flat alum trigger and reduced trigger spring alone with some pins and main spring 13-15lb will make nice, short trigger pull just under 3lb. You can get them as a package or individual parts. Call CGW for recommendations. They will tell you exact part numbers to order.
Springer precision plate with Burris FF3 3MOA works nice.
Barrel bushing may be needed or not. Depends on how tight is factory fit. You can change it later if needed.
S&B Ammo while one of the best accurate loads for general purpose it too hot for BE.
Reloading with Hornady HAP 125gr JHP or XTP (more expensive) can produce softer, very accurate loads.
Precision Delta 124gr JHP loaded to the same recipe is great less expensive practice and 25yrd substitute.
Enjoy.

[M1A4ME]

what Boris mentioned - plus the CGW adjustable sear to go along with that CGW hammer.  The adjustable sear turns a bear of a job (modifying the safety cam to engage properly with the sear) into a relative breeze.  I did it the "old fashioned way" the first time and the second/third where done with the CGW adjustable sear, a dab of Loctite and the little allen wrench CGW supplies with their sear.

Oh, if you take out the firing pin block you'll need that spacer, too, to take the place of the firing pin block lifting arm/spring on the sear pin.

I think my youngest son has his CZ75SA down around 2.5 or 2.75 lbs. now for trigger pull.

[adrian]

     Hiya Fuzzy Sights and thx for your thread. It sounds like a very fun project. Several members here have also come to find the 75b-SA frame a perfect .22 platform. And think I recall you were the lucky chap who found an extra threaded barrel in your shadow 2 kadet kit. Well hope this thread will educate and entertain.
Pictures save 1000 words,and hope you consider providing some. I don't know the difference of your shadow 2 kit to the one I bought in 2012.
     If ya have time, grab paper and pen and start on the kadet history here and move forward. You will find our resident experts on your platform and be familiar with what their years of using the platform for BE.
     With it being a competition gun, do they allow all competitors any manner of platform,czc work,hammer, trigger action,red dot,suppressor,reloads,or are there level of it. Could a lowly Kadet on a p-01 be allowed to shoot against one of these 4,000 cz customized Kadet/75bSA's. It would be Hyundai verses Tesla, just not fair.

[Earl Keese]

I would keep the OEM hammer spring until all of the other suggested mods have been completed and tested with a trigger gauge. The hammer spring has a negligible effect on trigger weight and the OEM one will ensure reliable ignition with the Kadet.
 For bullseye, deleting the fpb is a must in my opinion.
 The CGW trigger return spring is worth a half pound in pull weight. You can bend the spring and lower pull weight even further but you risk making the trigger reset too weak. The Cajun hammer and polishing alone is good for right at 3lbs with a very crisp break. I've fitted wide pre-b sears, but the Cajun adjustable sear with spacer is very nice and makes the job easy and quick.
 If you prefer more of a rolling break with (maybe) a slightly lighter pull weight, then the CZC comp legal hammer is a good option. Don't get me wrong, the CZC hammer has a nice break, but if you like to "stage" the trigger this might be a better option. I also have a CZC Ghost hammer but haven't installed yet so I don't know how it compares.
 Obviously, results vary between individual guns. Mine have all come in between 2.5 and 3lbs. I don't claim to be an expert, these are just my results.

[Fuzzy Sights]

Thanks to one and all for the suggestions.  Will contact CGW next week and order the parts.  Had not thought about using and adjustable sear, but if it saves a few Anglo-Saxon Monosyllables then it is worth the price.  Sorry that I can not provide pictures of my Shadow 2 Kadet, as it is on its way back to CZ USA for a quick repair.  Seems I may have a head space issue causing light hits.  Will be happy to when it returns.  Was thinking of either LOK or Nill grips for the CZ 75 SA.  Have two other CZ s with LOK and they are quite comfortable and do not move in recoil.  Always like the Karl Nill Grips with a thumb rest on Hammerli P-210s when I was stationed in Germany.  Would think such a set up on a SA 75 would be quite the thing for Bullseye.

Agree that on the SA the hammer spring does not mean much in trigger weight, but huge on reliability for the Kadet.  Have taken the step of ordering CGW extended firing pins and had them modified for use in a Kadet 2.  Their use gets a bit touchy as they can not be used with a full power hammer spring or you will pierce the case.  Hope that these will not be needed for this project.  Actual purpose was for my wifes P01 that I am putting a Kadet 2 kit on for her to practice using the 13 lb spring in that firearm.

Will hold off on ordering the CGW bushing.  Accuracy seems more than adequate as it is set up now.  Used a random reload and it will stay inside the 10 ring on a B-8 at 25 yds off a bench.  Which is considerably better than I can hold at the moment.

Thanks again for the great insights.  Will update as I progress in the project.  If anyone else has thoughts please add them.

 JW

[JRR]

Grips with a thumb rest would be a great advantage.  I had been using the cocobolo grips but went to the SP01 rubber due to the ergonomics.  They have a bit of a thumb rest and palm swells. 
I drilled and tapped the top of the Kadet and installed a full rib.  Tried a ultra dot 30 but found it to be a bit heavy.  The Vortex and Burris FF3 work great.
Remember, that the Cajun bushing is not for the Kadet, but rather the original center fire top end.
An early morning match in cold weather can be problematic.  Make the inner slide as low friction as possible to keep the slide velocity up.  Shoot it "wet".  Shoot it the day before and don't clean it until after the match.  Label your mags and determine which ones are the most reliable for the slide to pick up the rounds.  My club has you load only 5 rounds at a time which may hinder slide pick up a bit.
Trigger is a single action only for small hands.
50 shots @50 ft. 

[ace73]

Here?s mine with a sao trigger!
I too belong to an indoor league, but I?m not as good as JRR!

[Joe L]

A 75B SA is a fine bullseye gun with the Kadet kit and/or 9mm slide with CGW bushing (if needed).  I put a rail on top of the Kadet slide and use an Ultradot Micro HD tube type red dot for rimfire and a Burris Fast Fire 3 in a dovetail mount in centerfire, and then a 97B"E" for .45 in outdoor matches. 

I concur with what has already been recommended above. 

CGW hammer and sear, 17 lb or higher hammer spring, remove fpsb and add the CGW spacer to the sear cage, some Sugru as needed on the rubber grips, 85 SAO trigger with two set screws, CGW trigger pin and trigger return spring, all good. 

Keep the Kadet chamber clean since it is tight for a .22 and keep the extractor and firing pin channel clean, and the gun will run fine.  Light oil, no grease, especially in the winter.  Keep an eye on the barrel retaining pin and change it every 10-20k rounds or so.   

More CZ bullseye videos than you probably have time or need to see available on YouTube at JoeMustang99.  20% of them are pretty good.

https://youtu.be/N3mAZ4xODCE

Joe

Joe 

[Fuzzy Sights]

Update

Pistol is now at gunsmith for the trigger work.  Purchased a mount for either  a Leupold Delta Point of Vortex Venom.  Was going to purchase the Venom until one of my shooting buddies told me he was on his 5th.  The company keeps sending him new ones and they last on average about 5 weeks.  May go with the Delta Point.  Question is what size dot? They go from 3 MOA to 12.  Any suggestions.

Still have not settled on grips.  Will contact Nill in Germany to see if they will make me what I want (Right hand with thumb-rest, like they make for the SIG P-210.)  If not may go with a LOK grip with fine checkering and palm-swell.

Any suggestions on bullet weights or loads for CZ Bullseye.  Thinking on the heavy side; 147gr coated lead TC or Flatpoint in front of VV N320.  Have heard that 3.7gr is a good place to start.  If any have other suggestions please chime in.  With a twist rate of 1 in 9.7 inches would think that 147 gr bullets would preform well.  Have a 2,000 clean once fired Speer cases ready to go.

If everything goes as planned should be ready for the first match by June.

Thanks to one and all for your kind assistance.

JW

[Joe L]

JW--go with the smallest dot red dot you can get, like a 2 or 3 moa.  I have had good luck with Burris Fast Fire 3  3moa red dots.  Been using them for 5 years, I think.  No experience with others, except for a tube type Ultradot Microdot HD, which is excellent, and one Holosun, which I just got last week, so too early to tell.

Others will have to comment on loads.  No experience here except with the 115 JHP, which I am sticking with.

Joe

[M1A4ME]

Just got one of the Holosun 507C sights.  Can set it for a 1MOA red dot, the 1 MOA red dot with a 65 MOA red circle around it or just the 65 MOA red circle.

The 1 MOA dot is tiny - but might be nice for shooting at smaller targets.  Not sure yet what it will go on, I'll have to get that figured out shortly.

[Boris_LA]

Question is what size dot? They go from 3 MOA to 12.  Any suggestions.
JW

For slow fire at 50yrd you would want the smaller dot 2MOA. For timed and rapid fire, you would want the faster sight acquisition and larger dot like 4MOA.
3 MOA seams like good compromise for both distances. I use Burris FastFire3 3MOA  dots on my CZs.

[Fuzzy Sights]

Ordered two sights both SIG Romeo 1s.  One with 3 MOA and one 6 MOA.  Have another application for the one I do not use in Bullseye.  Will see how this works out in a couple of weeks.  Midway had them on sale for $239 each.  Reviews looked pretty good.  The one issue I have found looking at all the products on the market is that there is a percentage that fail at, before or just after installation.  Have my fingers crossed, but SIG has always been a good company to back their products.  Also liked the larger screen. 

Still shooting for a June first match.

JW

[Fuzzy Sights]

Update - Pistol trigger work is complete.  Ended up just over 3lb, but a very crisp clean break with no creep.  Dot sight and mount are on the way and hope to have the complete package less grips by end of next week.  Kadet top end is finished.  Looking for bullesye loads to feed this beast.  Opened a thread in the Ammo and Handloading section.  Right now I am working up loads for Bowling Pin Minor Matches using 147gr Plated Bullets for Berry's and VV N320.  Nice soft load that is in the mid 900 fps area and seems reasonably accurate.  My only concern is that at my local club few shoot 9mm in bullseye, and none of them shoot 147gr bullets.  Their guns all have slower rates of twist than the CZ (1-16 vs CZ 1-9.7).  I am hoping for a load that is much like the 38 WC loads from the Mod 52 S&W, without all the quirks that went with that pistol.

Will post pictures when complete and hopefully a couple of good targets.

JWhttp://