Author Topic: Stiff safety  (Read 652 times)

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Offline hammer_fired

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Stiff safety
« on: April 13, 2019, 12:38:08 PM »
The safety on my new 97b is very stiff and mushy. I can disengage it, but to reengage it, I need to use my left hand (I'm rh)

I disassembled it with some effort. The safety lever was very difficult to get out. I basically had to push it with a punch to get it started. Tough to do while trying to hold the detent back. With the sear cage pulled out, the lever operates smoothly. Same thing when it is inserted into just the sear cage. Getting the safety lever back in takes some effort too.

I'm thinking that I may lightly sand the right end of the shaft to see if that frees things up a bit, though maybe a call to CZ is in order first. Thoughts?

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Stiff safety
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2019, 01:42:44 PM »
One of my P09's had a very stiff safety.  I sat in the chair and changed from one hand to the other working the safety till my thumb was tired, then pinched the safety between my thumb and trigger finger and kept working it till it got noticeably looser.

Doing the new CZ75B the same way.  That safety is tough to move from fire to safe.  It'll wear in, sooner or later, if I keep at it.

If you elect to sand/stone something, make sure you're polishing in the spot where it's tight.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline hammer_fired

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Re: Stiff safety
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2019, 02:42:59 PM »
Thanks, M1. I'll go your route first.

On an aside, you are right about about working on a safety equiped CZ, i.e., it is pretty straight forward. I haven't taken apart the sear cage, but can't imagine it being that difficult to work with. I'd say that it is on par with taking down the BDM, only the bits and pieces are different, and in different places.

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Stiff safety
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2019, 03:18:21 PM »
I could be wrong, but I'd rather tear into a CZ75, or P07/P09 any day than a BDM.  Then again I've only been into the BDM once, to replace that broken firing pin and that's just the slide, not the frame.

I can't see the sear, the sear spring, firing pin block lifting arm or the spring for that being the issue.  Now, a safety shaft diameter issue?  Or a slight misalignment between the safety shaft and the two holes in either side of the sear cage - or the hole on the right side of the frame?  Or even some issue with angles/sharpness of the detent in the left side of the frame and the safety shaft even.

I know I made the thumb safety on one of my M&P's "more positive" by removing the safety lever (one piece that protrudes out the frame on each side) and using a 3 corner file to make the notch in the safety lever "sharper."  That gave it a combination of a more positive feel when moving as well as taking a little more force to make it move.

I've not had to go further than just working the safety on/off so I can't say I've really looked closely at the detent and safety shaft engagement surfaces or angles to see what might be changed there to help.  In fact, a few people here have expressed the desire to make their pistol's safety more positive and the usual recommendation is to buy/install a stronger spring (the one in the frame that pushes the detent against the safety shaft.)  But, before I'd modify that spring I'd look at the fit/finish of the detent and safety shaft and see if I could take care of it there first - if I had to go beyond wearing it in by hand.

Good luck with it.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline hammer_fired

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Re: Stiff safety
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2019, 04:14:04 PM »
I've been thinking about this a bit more. Since it binds when assembled, maybe there is a bump at the back of the sear cage or on the frame that is preventing the sear cage from moving in proper alignment with the shaft holes. Won't have time to check that out until tomorrow.

On the BDM: I can detail strip the frame in about 5 mins. I think I can get it back together in about 10 mins. now that I've done it a couple of times.

Offline adrian

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Re: Stiff safety
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2019, 05:14:06 PM »
     Hiya hammer_fired and thanks for your thread. Well sucks to have a new gun and having that slip thru the cracks. I had it happen on the right side of a 83,and understand a little sanding in the proper spot was the fix. With your warranty in full effect hope you at least bounce the issue off the ears of a cz smith at cz-usa come monday. Other than that hope you are enjoying the tack driving accuracy out of the box. Be well.

Offline hammer_fired

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Re: Stiff safety
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2019, 11:31:22 AM »
Took it down again, and checked it over. Didn't see anything that looked out of order.

I've been working the safety a bit ala M1. It has loosened up a bit, enough so that I can now move it up with my thumb. Will continue with this option before making a call.

Offline hammer_fired

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Re: Stiff safety
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2019, 01:56:58 PM »
Still working on it.

Lightly polished the shaft, which helped a little bit in that I can now work the safety out without having to use a tool to push on the end of the shaft. Movement is slightly easier.

Confirmed that there is a problem with the sear cage not moving back far enough back and is binding the safety shaft. I did this by inserting the safety in from the right side. The shaft was slightly binding even though it was only going through one side of the frame (guess I could have partially inserted it from the left and got the same result.) I would guess that the notches at the back of the sear cage are a little short on depth, or the frame is a bit wide where the sear cage slips onto it, or a little of both.

Right now, it is workable, but it would be nice to have a nice smooth click on, click off action. Not sure if I'm going to tinker around with it any more or not. At a minimum, I need to re-blue the safety as I have worn off the factory bluing working it up and down.

Maybe I should bite the bullet and make a call to CZ and see what they think....

Offline hammer_fired

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Re: Stiff safety
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2019, 09:31:22 PM »
Decided to send my pistol in to have CZ-USA repair it. Just couldn't get it to loosen up, and with the pressure on the sear cage, got to thinking that maybe it might crack. They are guessing 4-6 wks to get to it. Should have done this right away and I'd have a couple of weeks of waiting done already.

I bought this pistol off of Gun Broker for a fairly good price. When I received it, the seal had been broken, so I'm guessing the seller checked out, found that stiff safety and decided to sell it on GB instead of in their shop.

I got a deal on a used FEG P9M that found to have a recoil spring guide that detent that was very stiff and required  the slide stop to be tapped out. A new $22 spring guide and I was good to go.

If is looks to be too good to be true......

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Stiff safety
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2019, 07:33:46 AM »
Thought about this yesterday.  I was working with that new CZ75B .40 and suddenly realized the safety is easier to move from safe to fire.

Sorry yours is being more difficult.  Let us know if they tell you what they fixed and how it feels when you get it back.  Who knows, some day I might run across the same thing and needs some ideas.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline hammer_fired

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Re: Stiff safety
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2019, 03:12:30 PM »
The safety on mine has no destinct detent. It can stay in any position inbetween on and off. I'm way curious what they come up with. Wish it wasn't going to take so long to find out.

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Stiff safety
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2019, 03:49:20 PM »
Well, in the frame, behind the safety is slot with a spring and detent in it.  The spring pushes the detent nose up against the safety shaft and helps hold the hammer pin retaining pin in the frame at the rear.

There should be machined areas on the safety shaft with a "bump" between them.  The nose of the detent pushes into the machined areas to hold the safety in that position (either fire or safe).

Sounds like yours is missing a part or the safety shaft or detent are correctly made or not correctly working together.

Good luck with it.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline hammer_fired

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Re: Stiff safety
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2019, 06:13:30 PM »
Everything is in there. With the sear cage removed, the detent works as it should...nice and smooth click on, click off. With the sear cage in place, it takes some effort to get the right end of the shaft pressed in place (the detent is being held back.)

My guesses are: 1. The holes in the frame are slightly towards the back of where they should be so the safety shaft is binding on the sear cage, 2. the back of the sear cage is under cut so it can't seat deep enough, so it is too far forward, again binding the safety shaft, 3. the frame where the sear cage seats is out of spec and doesn't allow the sear cage to seat back far enough as in #2, 4. tolerance stacking of the other 3.

Offline hammer_fired

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Re: Stiff safety
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2019, 09:59:47 PM »
It's been at CZ-USA for a week now, so 3-5 more weeks before they start checking it over. The BDM has been the substitute carry piece since I shipped it. Don't mind the BDM, or the 1911, but I really like carrying the 97B.

To ease the the wait, I ordered a M7 shoulder holster that a reviewer said worked with his 97B. We'll see. I really like that style shoulder holster. Had hoped that it would work in the M3 I already have, but the 97B is a bit to big.

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Stiff safety
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2019, 06:58:52 AM »
Hope they get it figured out quicker than 3 to 5 weeks.  It's no fun being without a pistol/rifle you like to use.

I carried my BDM some.  Combination of trigger bite, unreliability with 147 grain bullets and not being happy with the accuracy just killed it for me.

I don't care for the decocker either (works much differently than the CZ decocker system, but I still didn't like it).  I guess I'd finally figured out how to carry it "correctly."  Decock it, move the decocking levers back to the fire position and put it in the holster.  I don't know if anyone carried theirs with the decocker levers in the "safe" position or not, but I didn't.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

 

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