Author Topic: ...standard 9mm???  (Read 1160 times)

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Offline cousinmark

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...standard 9mm???
« on: April 25, 2019, 12:30:58 PM »
    I read the above post about ammo and was surprised to see the use of NATO ammo was discouraged for CZs. As I have a case of the Winchester offering I did a little research. Now I'm really confused :-) Presuming the numbers I've found on the manufacturers sites are correct seems like it should be fine? Heres what I came up with, these numbers are at the muzzle and for 124gr FMJ RN ammo.

    Winchester NATO, 1200fps/396# on Winchesters site, 1185fps/387# on an alternate chart
    S&B, 1181fps/384#
    Fiocchi, 1180fps/383#
    Geco, 1181fps/382#
   
    Several of the USA ammo manufacturers "budget" ammos are a little lower. Federal American Eagle is at 1120fps/345# for example. I was actually thinking I'd order the S&B option for the CZs next batch but now I'm wondering if it's too hot? I have a Rami BD and a PCR.
    Any thoughts are appreciated...
   

Offline Rcher

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Re: ...standard 9mm???
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2019, 12:50:25 PM »
CZ company is using S&B ammo for their tests, both are produced in Czech Republic - so S&B should be fine.

Offline SoCal

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Re: ...standard 9mm???
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2019, 12:57:22 PM »
NATO spec. ammo is equal (roughly) to SAAMI
+P.   

BUT is the ammo just called NATO or is it actually loaded to NATO SPEC.

I would fire NATO in a CZ that is in good condition, BUT YOU must decide if that is right for YOU.

Firing higher pressure ammo does cause more wear and tear but unless you shoot thousands and thousands of rounds a year of the higher pressure loads IMHO you will not notice the extra wear.

If I had known how much better being retired is than working I would have done it FIRST.

Offline adrian

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Re: ...standard 9mm???
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2019, 01:27:59 PM »
     Hiya cousin mark and thx for your thread. As we well know,opinions are like elbows,everybody has a couple. And I enjoy putting mine up here at the forum as well. Do consider that cz-usa is available for you to call and speak to a parts person,warranty,person, even a smith if ya like to compare notes.
     I believe something like the sp-01 tactical was made specific for LE and military use and NATO standards for ammo. But imagine duty pistols will rarely see 20,000 rds of use in service. I imagine that an average person,like myself, shoots avg priced factory ammo to use for target practice and on occasion shoots their HP,HD,plus p ammo. And prolly based more on cost of ammo verses concern about the life of their platform being reduced. I do enjoy feeding my python a box of .357 every now and again, but to cut paper the .38special is more cost effective.
     I like the S&B but don't always find it avail,but the federal works just as good for range shooting. Winchester ammo,for me was dirty to handle,and had more fouling to my guns and just don't use it. The Fiocchi I seemed to prefer their .380 rounds.
     You can visit the cz-usa FAQ area but cz says use plus p sparingly,and to not use handloads,or plus p plus ammo. Be well.

Offline cousinmark

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Re: ...standard 9mm???
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2019, 02:53:11 PM »
NATO spec. ammo is equal (roughly) to SAAMI
+P.   

BUT is the ammo just called NATO or is it actually loaded to NATO SPEC.

I would fire NATO in a CZ that is in good condition, BUT YOU must decide if that is right for YOU.

Firing higher pressure ammo does cause more wear and tear but unless you shoot thousands and thousands of rounds a year of the higher pressure loads IMHO you will not notice the extra wear.

Ahhhh, hadn't thought of that SoCal. Maybe it's just called NATO??? I was ASSUMING...
Again if the ballistic numbers I gathered are accurate it would seem that it's about the same as the other imports I listed. As Richer mentioned S&B is the CZ test ammo and it's right about the same.
For what it's worth I did see a number of +P options that were listed as consistently higher psi/# wise.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: ...standard 9mm???
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2019, 10:03:27 AM »
That ammo is OK to use, it will simply wear out your gun a little faster. Most of the guys here are shooting some type of competition (or simply plinking) and high velocities are not required, but accuracy and reliability are.

You'll soon find all this out for yourself when you start replacing extractors and slide stops.
In God we trust; On 'Starting Load' we rely.

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: ...standard 9mm???
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2019, 11:59:04 AM »
If you want to shoot that ammo keep the factory recoil spring installed and replace it when needed (lots of folks here change theirs out based on round count and the count can vary from person to person, pistol to pistol.

I bought a box of Winchester 115 grain FMJ 9MM one time.  Have never felt the need to buy another box of it.  I do, sometimes, buy Federal 9MM 115 grain FMJ.  It shoots very well in my CZ pistols and is dog gone cheap at Walmarts around here.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline Ruber

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Re: ...standard 9mm???
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2019, 01:20:01 PM »
As has been mentioned, springs and loads should match, CZ?s that are properly sprung and maintained should hold up to 10?s of thousands of rounds of NATO ammo.

If you are really interested in the subject beyond web forums, there are lots of resources out there. 

SAAMI and CIP-BOBP have good publications on testing procedures and specifications on line.

In addition, there are several books that discuss internal ballistics, one that I think keeps it simple is Rinker?s Understanding Firearms Ballistics.  I keep a copy at my office for reference for when staff and I have questions about why one round behaves differently than other seemingly similar rounds.

And reloading manuals like Speer or Hornady?s will discuss some internal ballistics.

Then you can have fun reading all the pubs on NATO interoperability....   ;)

Offline cousinmark

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Re: ...standard 9mm???
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2019, 11:47:37 PM »
Hey thanks for the replies guys. I generally don't run more than 100-150 rounds through a pistol on a given range visit. Normally I order ammo in batches, cheaper stuff for practice, American Eagle, Fiocchi, Geco, Aguila...
When I read the "what to feed your CZ" post and there was a strong suggestion to not use NATO ammo that got me looking. Seeing that the "standard" Euro ammo is right about the same as the "NATO" stuff I ordered last batch is what made my head spin  :o
...again maybe this Winchester "NATO" isn't really true NATO spec?