Author Topic: Bullseye Bullets and Loads for CZ 75B SA  (Read 1435 times)

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Offline Fuzzy Sights

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Bullseye Bullets and Loads for CZ 75B SA
« on: April 28, 2019, 10:42:33 PM »
I am setting up a CZ 75B SA to shoot only Bullseye matches. Need to start thinking on what loads to use.  Given the fast rate of twist in the 75 I am leaning towards 147gr Plated or coated bullets backed by VVN320, WW 231, Hogdon Clays, or Tightgroup.  Will be using a Dillion 650 for loading using a Lee size die designed to eliminate bulges leftover from shooting the early glock pistols.  All my brass is Speer.  Any suggestions where I can work from here would be greatly appreciated.

JW


[Mods clarified title]
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 08:21:20 AM by Wobbly »

Offline Boris_LA

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Re: Bullseye Bullets and Loads
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2019, 12:28:58 AM »
Get some Hornady XTP or HAP 124-125gn JHP bullets for 50yard slow-fire and Precision Delta 124gn JHP for practice and posible 25yard.
I am getting good results with those bullets and Titegroup.
I also was getting very good results with 115gn JHP (both Hornady and PD) and VV n320.

Offline Pistolet

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Re: Bullseye Bullets and Loads
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2019, 01:36:43 PM »
I am curious, what is the correlation between twist rate and bullet weight?

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Offline Fuzzy Sights

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Re: Bullseye Bullets and Loads
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2019, 10:02:16 PM »
Boris.  Thanks will try as I have all of that on hand (124gr XTP and tightgroup).  Did you ever try the XTP with VV N 320?  Not fond of tightgroup due to burning hot and being smokey.  Many of my matches are shot in open but confined locations and the smoke frequently stays around.  VV powders also tend to be really clean.

Pistolet - Not much talked about in the pistol world but in target high power rifle twist rate limits what bullets can be used.  The issue is not really the weight but how long the bearing surface of the bullet.  More bullet weight the longer the bullet the faster the rate of twist needed to keep the bullet stable at a given velocity.  Most 9mm are 1-16 and designed for lighter and faster loads.  CZ was designed for 124gr bullets and to be capable for heavier bullets with a 1-9.7 inch twist rate.  Heavier bullets moving at lower velocities use less powder and thus usually have a lower felt recoil.

Thanks to you both for input.  I will add Boris' suggestion to the top of the list, cause I have no idea what I am doing. 

JW


Offline Wobbly

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Re: Bullseye Bullets and Loads
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2019, 10:13:00 PM »
Mr Fuzz -
147's can have issues in the CZ, especially with mixed brass. So I wouldn't assume you can shoot just any old 147 you find on sale. The only one I can name off the top of my head that works every time is the Berry 147gr RN.

If you want a heavy bullet to use with mixed brass, then stepping down to 135gr (often found listed under 38 Super) will give you far more options.

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Offline Boris_LA

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Re: Bullseye Bullets and Loads
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2019, 01:14:27 AM »
Boris.  Thanks will try as I have all of that on hand (124gr XTP and tightgroup).  Did you ever try the XTP with VV N 320?  Not fond of tightgroup due to burning hot and being smokey.  Many of my matches are shot in open but confined locations and the smoke frequently stays around.  VV powders also tend to be really clean.
TG is smoky with lead lubed bullets. With JHP its not bad.
Test OAL carefully and don't be surprised if you end up with very short usable OAL. Start your ladder below published minimum charge and watch the velocity.

Offline Fuzzy Sights

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Re: Bullseye Bullets and Loads
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2019, 10:39:32 PM »
Wobbly,

Do not use mixed brass for anything.  Always got inconsistent results and some were outright dangerous.  Right now I have 3000 pieces of clean Speer 9mm Brass.  I am using the Berry's 147gr RN.  Did not get consistent velocities with Ramshot Competition (ES 80fps).  VV N320 had a very narrow window, but 3.5gr gives me 950 fps and a ES of 6 from my Labdar Chronograph.  Also a very soft recoil impulse.  Have yet to do the production run and final accuracy test but I am confident the gun and load will out perform me, so it is a good place to start.  Will load enough to practice through the summer.  Turns out that they cancelled all the matches through the summer at my local club.  Next match will not be until Sept. 

Will give Boris load a try. Turns out only have 200 of the XTP bullets, enough for test loads.  Will see how they hold up against the 147s.

Thanks to one and all for the kind assistance.  Will post some targets when the dot sights and mount come in. 

JW

Offline noylj

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Re: Bullseye Bullets and Loads
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2019, 01:49:59 AM »
1) Get a CZC Accu-Shadow.
2) Find out what most Bullseye (NRA Precision Pistol) match shooters are using for bullets and powders.
As far as I can tell, the emphasis is on Nosler/Zero 115gn JHPs and BE86 and Power Pistol powders

Offline Fuzzy Sights

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Re: Bullseye Bullets and Loads
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2019, 02:13:45 PM »
noylj,
Pistol so far has shown an ability to stay well inside the 10 ring at 25 yds and I have only begun the load testing process. 2 bullets so far.  Tried a couple of the lighter bullets 115 and 124 gr and they did not seem to do any better and were much snappier in felt recoil.  The accuracy limitation is most likely typing this message in right now and has nothing to do with the gun or the reloads.  Felt recoil is a combination of a lot of things (weight of firearm, bullet, momentum, springs, etc.)  but usually a heavier bullet at a modest consistent velocity using the slowest powder that completely burns before the bullet exits will produce the least felt recoil.

Currently on a different project I am developing some ammo for a bowling pin match.  Last month was my first match and I just grabbed a CZ TS 9mm and some ammo that I loaded for a steel challenge match I used to shoot 5 years ago.  Problem was the ammo did not have the energy or momentum to take the pin off the table (124gr Montana Gold bullet loaded with H Tightgroup at just over 1,000fps).  This load is a little smokey and is quite snappy, even in a heavy gun like the TS.  The load I worked up with 147gr XTPs using VV 3N38 runs at 1100 fps, provides no smoke and less felt recoil than the 124gr Montana Gold load did and is much more powerful.  Will run it next weekend at the match and see what happens.

Back to Bullseye, I am looking for a load that is accurate enough for the long line, but provides the least recoil for rapid fire.  As of now I have had 11 *different bullets recommended, 8 different powders, with a average load spread of 1.5gr for a total 1,320 different combinations.  So far I have tried only 5 loads.  Back to the bench. 

Offline Fuzzy Sights

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Re: Bullseye Bullets and Loads for CZ 75B SA
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2019, 12:35:07 PM »
Tried two more powders and did little more testing with VV N320.  Tightgroup and VV N310 did not work out.  N310 did not generate enough recoil to be reliable until it started showing pressure signs.  Tightgroup was reliable in function but did not give the best accuracy.  Would hit the black at 25, but not the 10 ring.  VVN320 at 3.4 grains has tightened the groups well inside the 10 ring.  May have my load.

JW

Offline Bossgobbler

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Re: Bullseye Bullets and Loads for CZ 75B SA
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2019, 06:29:10 PM »
Many Bullseye shooters use 115gn and push them about 1200 + fps. The talk around the matches is that they shoot flatter and you get better groups at 50 yards.

Offline Bossgobbler

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Re: Bullseye Bullets and Loads for CZ 75B SA
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2019, 06:38:40 PM »
Tried two more powders and did little more testing with VV N320.  Tightgroup and VV N310 did not work out.  N310 did not generate enough recoil to be reliable until it started showing pressure signs.  Tightgroup was reliable in function but did not give the best accuracy.  Would hit the black at 25, but not the 10 ring.  VVN320 at 3.4 grains has tightened the groups well inside the 10 ring.  May have my load.

JW
What load did you use with the N310?  2.9gn of N310 with a 147gn bullet, 890 fps runs my CZ SP01 Shadow. 3.4gn N310 with a 125gn bullet will give you about 1025 fps

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Bullseye Bullets and Loads for CZ 75B SA
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2019, 06:39:18 PM »
Many Bullseye shooters use 115gn and push them about 1200 + fps. The talk around the matches is that they shoot flatter and you get better groups at 50 yards.

Any bullet moving at 1200fps is going to shoot "flatter" than one moving, say, 1100fps. Gravity makes the bullet drop, so one moving faster simply goes further before it drops. So I think what's happening is that the lighter bullets have a POI closer to the POA over 50 yards.

Over a multi-shot competition, the 115gr is also probably more comfortable (lower recoil) to shoot.
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Offline andrew1220

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Re: Bullseye Bullets and Loads for CZ 75B SA
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2019, 02:13:37 PM »
Many Bullseye shooters use 115gn and push them about 1200 + fps. The talk around the matches is that they shoot flatter and you get better groups at 50 yards.
Over a multi-shot competition, the 115gr is also probably more comfortable (lower recoil) to shoot.
:o That's news to me. I use 150 gr blue bullets and they're noticeably softer shooting than my 115 gr loads.

Offline andrew1220

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Re: Bullseye Bullets and Loads for CZ 75B SA
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2019, 02:16:13 PM »
In addition, to Hornady HAP or Precision Delta bulelts, don't forget Zero brand bullets. They're very accurate in my experience (9mm, 357 mag, and 44 mag).
http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RZD&Category_Code=ZBJ-9MM

No way in hell I'd use plated bullets for bullseye shooting especially since many vendors charge the same if not more money than a jacketed bullet - makes 0 sense to use them IMO. You'll get better accuracy with coated bullets like Blue Bullets or from using the above ^ mentioned jacketed bullets.