Author Topic: confusing me (finally)  (Read 430 times)

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Offline chet45

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confusing me (finally)
« on: May 15, 2019, 07:48:23 PM »
need some assistance, i have a new shadow 2, shot it for approx 800 rounds, no problems, i took it apart to clean up and polish some parts, i took .008 off the hooks, gun shoots a little erratic, i may shoot 10-15 rounds and then i get a hammer hang up, hammer falls forward about 1/4" or so, when i took the hooks down i kept the same angle of the flat on top of the hooks, so now that i removed .008 the flat is a bit longer, i did not do anything else, i am thinking i have to get back in there and shorten the flat, is it possible the sear is hanging up there, this only happens when i pull the trigger real slow aiming on paper targets, shooting fast is no problem.

ps the sear is not catching anything, i thought it was, it is something else, if i pull real slow, not all the time but the hammer drops 1/4" the most, something else is causing the hangup, any ideas, i did oil the internals sort of excessive. i dont always oil this excessive, i figured since it looked kind of dry, was going to clean it when i got home from the range

update, notice when i pull the slide back ant pull the trigger it seems crisp on the drop, if i hold the trigger after i pull the trigger cock it, and let the trigger out till i hear the reset and pull the trigger the hammer does not drop as crisp.

i installed the new disco and fit it, now the issue is every try at the bench, i pull the trigger and the trigger drop about 1/16"every time and it is in double action mode,i can continue to pull the trigger just like a regular double action.

any ideas before i give up and make it a sa gun

chet

 I would like to thank whitedingo for his thoughts, he hit the nail right on the head, after attempting the new short reach disco, still was having the issue when cocked and pulling trigger it would drop into double action mode, he explained what is happening, i ground .009 off the face of the disco wing flat and it works perfect.
 all is fine now, just have to get to the range and test it.

chet
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 03:04:58 PM by chet45 »

Offline Tok36

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Re: confusing me
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2019, 08:48:37 PM »
Just so that i understand correctly. When the hammer falls "1/4 inch", is the hammer falling to the half cock/safety notch?

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Offline chet45

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Re: confusing me
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2019, 09:24:28 PM »
hi tok
after observation, that is the only thing it can be, especially if i pull real slow and lightly, i have a feeling it is catching the half cock, it happened at the range and i was confused, it just might be that since i lowered the hooks so this may be the issue, so if i am correct i have to lower the half cock hooks the same amount, am i heading the right way

chet

Offline Tok36

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Re: confusing me
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2019, 10:27:25 PM »
   It is my understanding that modifying the hammer hooks would not cause the issue that you describe. I think i get the logic that you were following that lead you towards the hammer. However the sear should lift up to the same height as it did before you modified the hammer. This means the sear should still have clearance. All that you have done is add clearance to the main hammer hooks while the sear clearance to the half cock notch remains the same.

   Generally without changing any parts there is one variable that can modify the sear clearance. This would be an over-travle set scerw located in the face of the trigger. Do you have a trigger with an over-travle set scerw in it? If so and it was recently adjusted or moving on its own it could increase or decrease the sear clearance.

   A good way to check the sear clearance is to closely observe it. This can be accomplished by manually rocking the hammer back and forth while observing the sear. If the sear has good clearance through the hammers full travel the hammer/sear is not the issue.

   One possibility that comes to mind is that the disconector may lack the proper trigger bar clearance. But you stated that you ran 800 rounds through it without issue and then the problem started. I am unclear how this could just pop up after so few rounds.
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Offline retteryer

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Re: confusing me
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2019, 12:10:08 AM »
need some assistance, i have a new shadow 2, shot it for approx 800 rounds, no problems, i took it apart to clean up and polish some parts, i took .008 off the hooks, gun shoots a little erratic, i may shoot 10-15 rounds and then i get a hammer hang up, hammer falls forward about 1/4" or so, when i took the hooks down i kept the same angle of the flat on top of the hooks, so now that i removed .008 the flat is a bit longer, i did not do anything else, i am thinking i have to get back in there and shorten the flat, is it possible the sear is hanging up there, this only happens when i pull the trigger real slow aiming on paper targets, shooting fast is no problem.

ps the sear is not catching anything, i thought it was, it is something else, if i pull real slow, not all the time but the hammer drops 1/4" the most, something else is causing the hangup, any ideas, i did oil the internals sort of excessive. i dont always oil this excessive, i figured since it looked kind of dry, was going to clean it when i got home from the range

update, notice when i pull the slide back ant pull the trigger it seems crisp on the drop, if i hold the trigger after i pull the trigger cock it, and let the trigger out till i hear the reset and pull the trigger the hammer does not drop as crisp.

That “something else” is your disconnector.I’m not familiar with Shadow 2,but on regular SP01,if you lower hammer hooks,you change timing and your disco will hang on “something”.
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Offline chet45

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Re: confusing me
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2019, 10:07:18 AM »
i slept on this tossing and turning, when i was shooting i was resting the gun on a elevated pc of wood resting the mag on the wood when i shoot,would the pressure of the mag rested and putting pressure upward cause any problems, going to check that today, i do have a new CGW short disco coming in a few days, if the timing was changed, are there ways to check timing,

chet

Offline chet45

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Re: confusing me
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2019, 05:36:59 PM »
 took it out today, this issue happened 2 times out of 100 shots, now that i am concentrating on whats happening, when the trigger fails, seems as if when pulling the trigger the hammer falls forward and seems as if it is double action mode, i relax the trigger and the hammer goes forward i then let the trigger off and the hammer then clicks into the mode as if when i manually let the hammer down, it goes to about 1/8" away from the firing pin, if i pull the hammer back i can shoot the shot.

 

chet

Offline chet45

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Re: confusing me
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2019, 09:51:21 PM »
 i want to add that i order the CGW short disco, before i install it i removed the oem disco, going to see if the hammer issue is solved by single action only. will take it from there. anything else to try.

chet

Offline retteryer

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Re: confusing me
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2019, 10:12:32 PM »
Hammer issue will be solved by SAO for sure,because it is disconnector issue.
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Offline chet45

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Re: confusing me
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2019, 09:51:08 AM »
Hammer issue will be solved by SAO for sure,because it is disconnector issue.

well i am off to the range this am, if all goes well, i really would like to install the new CGW short disco, when fitting a new disco, i did read the instructions, not a problem, so when fitting a new disco, has anyone ever went thru this and took too much material off. how does gun act when too much material is removed, i am trying to understand if it is my stock disco causing my problem. since the hooks were lowered, that means the hammer is going to fall at a shorter trigger pull and the disco needs to be sightly forward, so that cannot happen now, unless build up the area that connects to the trigger bar.

chet

Offline chet45

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Re: confusing me
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2019, 08:13:51 PM »
was at the range today, all is fine in s/a. the trigger felt smoother and positive, so tomorrow i will fit the CGW short disco and hope the trigger hanging up issue don't come back.

chet

Offline tdogg

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Re: confusing me (update)
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2019, 11:04:18 PM »
Chet,

The oem hammer is case hardened.   By removing material you removed the hardened steel.  I don't want to come off as a doomsdayer but we just (last week) had a shooter shoot his weak hand twice because his tangfolio went full auto upon the make ready command during chambering a round.  The hammer followed when he slung shot the slide.  He has a long road to recover and possibly won't be able to shoot two handed effectively again.

You should strongly consider a race hammer as opposed to modifying the oem hammer or any other part that controls the action.

Just a word of caution.

Cheers,
Toby

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Offline chet45

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Re: confusing me (update)
« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2019, 03:09:01 PM »
Chet,

The oem hammer is case hardened.   By removing material you removed the hardened steel.  I don't want to come off as a doomsdayer but we just (last week) had a shooter shoot his weak hand twice because his tangfolio went full auto upon the make ready command during chambering a round.  The hammer followed when he slung shot the slide.  He has a long road to recover and possibly won't be able to shoot two handed effectively again.

You should strongly consider a race hammer as opposed to modifying the oem hammer or any other part that controls the action.

Just a word of caution.

Cheers,
Toby

 Hi Toby
thanks for your thoughts on caution, i try to as safe as i can, i did reharden the hooks, not sure if it helped because i removed material from the top only, i ended up solving the hammer hang ups, thanks to whitedingo, i ended up machining .008 or .009 off the new disco wing flat, works slick now

  chet

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Offline George16

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Re: confusing me (finally)
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2019, 05:57:05 PM »
Glad you got it working. Which part of the wing did you remove material from? Any pictures or illustrations?

 

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