Primary Machine Presence Here

[Raining_Brass]

Since the barrel thread was locked without me given an opportunity to defend our name, I guess I'll make a thread doing so - at least before it gets edited and/or deleted.

Wobbly, I've never had an interaction with you that I can recall. I'm sure you're a great person and all. Maybe you woke up on the wrong side of the bed before making your post. I really don't know. But I do know you're 100% wrong and incorrect in your post.



- Act like responsible CZ vendors and pay for an ad?
We'd love to. We asked about doing JUST THAT - YEARS ago. We spend literally tens of thousands of dollars a year on advertising. Whether it's forum ads, local ads, etc. So going on your rant and trying to make us come off as looking for a free venue is unappreciated and unprofessional to say the least - especially when you CLEARLY don't have a grasp on our company.

I asked in 2017 to do exactly as you said PAY FOR AN AD. We were told no one has ever paid for ads and that they were simply given in exchange for "donated items". I don't expect my word to be taken for it. So here is the beginning of what came to be a lengthy conversation between myself and AM.





I've helped and answered dozens and dozens of member questions here. I get emails almost daily from members saying that they appreciate the presence of another person in the CZ aftermarket here on the boards. If my presence here was unwanted, all anyone had to do was say so in the last several years and 1,000+ posts I've been a member here.

So again, I'll touch on why I made the thread: If you want us to pay for an ad - then give us that opportunity before calling us out the way you did being 100% unknowing of the fact that we have tried to pursue that avenue already. If the forum needs money - why wasn't ours taken? Why were we told that essentially the only path to an ad here was to "donate" an item and that a sub forum is only given essentially if your presence and contributions are deemed worthy enough? We literally just wanted to give the forum ACTUAL MONEY to be here and support the forum.

[ranastas]

I can?t speak on monetary issues,  but as far as Bruce and Primary Machine go.
All aces in my book, the man is busy as hell with work but always responds and contributes. His work is top notch with meticulous attention to detail. I have two of his comps and a v2 omen slide. On my last order I bugged the living crap out of him because I was leaving TDY for 3 months and wanted my slide, the dude answered every time.

Is this what we do now, we eat our own.


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[Maynard]

I will credit you with persistence and the patience to build your product brand. I personally saw you ousted from ARFCom a few times and saw where you are now a paying industry type there.

Congrats and kudos for how you've persisted and done the right things to build your brand, Sir.

I hope you can work things out here.

[Raining_Brass]

I will credit you with persistence and the patience to build your product brand. I personally saw you ousted from ARFCom a few times and saw where you are now a paying industry type there.

Congrats and kudos for how you've persisted and done the right things to build your brand, Sir.

I hope you can work things out here.

AR15.com is INSANELY expensive to advertise on. It's right at $6,000/yr for the package we have there. But we're happy to pay it to be there. Which is why its beyond insulting when someone insinuates that we're looking to have a free front to post on. We pay our dues all over and we'd be more than happy to do so here as well. Yet we were turned down when we asked to do so.

[Maynard]

I will credit you with persistence and the patience to build your product brand. I personally saw you ousted from ARFCom a few times and saw where you are now a paying industry type there.

Congrats and kudos for how you've persisted and done the right things to build your brand, Sir.

I hope you can work things out here.

AR15.com is INSANELY expensive to advertise on. It's right at $6,000/yr for the package we have there. But we're happy to pay it to be there. Which is why its beyond insulting when someone insinuates that we're looking to have a free front to post on. We pay our dues all over and we'd be more than happy to do so here as well. Yet we were turned down when we asked to do so.

It would beg the question of certain established industry presences not being receptive, maybe.

[joedirt199]

Not sure how my thread turned into an unapproved add.  My original post did not have a link to Primary Machine's Match Barrel but it was changed by Wobbly and added to the original post.  I asked a question from actual customers not a blanket statement so people could go look up what I was talking about then get back to me with their opinions.  Adding the direct link does nothing for someone who already owns the barrel in question and wants to add their experience.  If anything he gave notice to their barrel and website then got mad when it gained ground.

After getting a few positive responses, I added my positive experience on the milling/Cerakote and quick turn around times of my own experience to mirror some other posters in my thread.  All of a sudden we get a nasty post to stop all the praise and start paying for add space.  Hope this gets worked out as I frequent the forum often.  Seems Wobbly is a moderator on most of the ones I frequent.  Guess I will just have to hang out in the back and just observe because commenting needs to meet pretty specific requirements in order to be deemed as productive.

[Raining_Brass]

I will credit you with persistence and the patience to build your product brand. I personally saw you ousted from ARFCom a few times and saw where you are now a paying industry type there.

Congrats and kudos for how you've persisted and done the right things to build your brand, Sir.

I hope you can work things out here.

AR15.com is INSANELY expensive to advertise on. It's right at $6,000/yr for the package we have there. But we're happy to pay it to be there. Which is why its beyond insulting when someone insinuates that we're looking to have a free front to post on. We pay our dues all over and we'd be more than happy to do so here as well. Yet we were turned down when we asked to do so.

It would beg the question of certain established industry presences not being receptive, maybe.

I really don't believe that's the case but I'm highly disappointed if it is. I support many of the other industry names here. I buy their products, send them my personal guns for work, and we even buy and install lots of their products in our own customers guns. I like to belive I can call many of them friends (at least I see it that way). And I think there's plenty of business to be had for everyone.

[joedirt199]

Plenty of people have posted positive reviews of work done to their guns done at Primary Machine and I haven't seen any of those locked for unapproved solicitation.

[Yankchef]

I personally wish more vendors had a presence in the forums to help troubleshoot issues with their products the same way that pm does. Bruce has no obligation whatsoever to post responses here when people have issues with their products but he does it anyway because he backs his work and I think that says something about the kind of person he is and what pm is all about.

If a thread started to sound like an "ad" because people like pm products then wouldn't any thread where people are talking about how great cgw triggers are be an "ad" too. I've really liked this forum since Ive joined but some things seem to get locked or categorized a little bit too quickly or unnecessarily, and I still can't edit the titles of my posts after I create them btw, just sayin

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[Hickeroar]

Primary Machine and Raining Brass are A-OK in my book. I've loved having someone from PM available to bounce questions off of. The forum would be worse without them, IMO.

Locking that thread was an ignorant, uninformed action by someone most of us have never interacted with. Wobbly clearly has not spent much time around the polymer forums if that discussion took them by surprise, and they seem unfamiliar with the goings on here.

Even more sad was the comment where Wobbly stated that he quickly scanned for an ad and didn't find one, making apparent that he doesn't even know for sure that PM does NOT have an ad, and showing that he doesn't even know the ad policy. It should be reopened and wobbly should be corrected.

[Grendel]

Primary Machine and Raining Brass are A-OK in my book. I've loved having someone from PM available to bounce questions off of. The forum would be worse without them, IMO.

Locking that thread was an ignorant, uninformed action by someone most of us have never interacted with. Wobbly clearly has not spent much time around the polymer forums if that discussion took them by surprise, and they seem unfamiliar with the goings on here.

Even more sad was the comment where Wobbly stated that he quickly scanned for an ad and didn't find one, making apparent that he doesn't even know for sure that PM does NOT have an ad, and showing that he doesn't even know the ad policy. It should be reopened and wobbly should be corrected.

And you should mind your business. I locked the thread, pending review by the forum owner, not wobbly.

Whether or not the thread was intended as an ad or not, it was trending that way. If Raining Brass has an issue with this, he can take it up offline with the owner.

Any further questioning of the moderators and/or admin concerning this issue, will result in sanctions being applied.

The administration and moderators may  lock, edit, remove, or otherwise deal with threads as they see fit and owe no one explanations for their actions.

Locked.

[Wobbly]

Primary Machine and Raining Brass are A-OK in my book. I've loved having someone from PM available to bounce questions off of. The forum would be worse without them, IMO.

And I wholeheartedly agree. That's why I sent messages to the forum owners concerning the business decisions that seem to exclude vendors such as Primary Machine... well before this thread was even opened. I personally am 100% for ALL relevant CZ vendors having ad and/or board space. What's good for the CZ gun business is also good for the Original CZ Forum's business.

In short, I went to bat for PM and that's why I do not appreciate this "Trial By Opra". This is underhanded character assassination on par with, and worthy of, the Clintons.

All the best.

[armoredman]

And as the Forum Owner I have replied to the moderators/Administrators here via PM about how this situation started, and why. Discussions will be held at these levels to address this, and situations may change.