Author Topic: WCC 9mm brass with pseudo-ringer  (Read 897 times)

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Offline Clint007

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WCC 9mm brass with pseudo-ringer
« on: June 01, 2019, 04:08:29 PM »
I had earlier complained about a WCC headstamp brass (Western Cartridge Company) that would not swage on my 1050 and would not accept a new primer. I have had about a dozen of these over the past few years, and today another one appeared and I thought to take pictures. I had tossed all the others.

First, it will not swage on the 1050.  My primer gauge confirms the pocket is is too small. 

Second, this does NOT appear to be a ringer to me, as all of these have been the same in appearance. Granted I haven't checked to see if I have any of these that DID reload okay.

Third, this case is not magnetic...but...here's the spooky magical thing about this. When I hold a very strong small small coin-magnet up against the base of the case, I can 'feel' that force that you notice when you have two magnets opposing each other and they repel each other. Very, very weak force, but it's there. Only noticeable on the base and center of case.  The magnet will not stick to the case or move it away, but I can feel this very weak force between them. I am not nuts. I had my daughter confirm it and she's convinced I'm crazy, so...there.

I found another reference to this, but don't agree with some of the comments about 'just swage it'....https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=972032

What the heck is this?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a3unq0skecnuapy/IMG_9189.JPG?dl=0



https://www.dropbox.com/s/83f6x7xbwn9dawr/IMG_9190.JPG?dl=0


 

[Mods added photos]
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 06:06:36 PM by Wobbly »
Huh?

Offline Bossgobbler

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Re: WCC 9mm brass with pseudo-ringer
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2019, 06:08:39 PM »
 #1 What you have is a case with a crimped primer. #2 when you tried to de-prime the case the primer cup broke leaving the side wall of the primer in the primer pocket. #3 this case goes in the scrap bucket.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: WCC 9mm brass with pseudo-ringer
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2019, 06:19:45 PM »
I had earlier complained about a WCC headstamp brass (Western Cartridge Company) that would not swage on my 1050 and would not accept a new primer. I have had about a dozen of these over the past few years, and today another one appeared and I thought to take pictures. I had tossed all the others.



As per the top cartoon in my graphic, a normal pocket on commercial ammo has a radius-ed primer pocket. This radius helps guide the primer into the pocket during seating.

Your WCC is military grade brass. To meet the specs of the NATO, the primer is crimped into place. You can see the circular crimp in your photo. What the crimp leaves is a sharp ledge that prevents reloaders from re-inserting a new primer.

As per the middle cartoon in my graphic, it's small, but you can clearly see the sharp ledge we're talking about. This is great brass, but to reload it the reloader must FIRST remove that sharp ledge. This is done either by swaging the primer pocket with a special tool to add back the radius, or simply using a common countersink cutter to add a bevel to the primer pocket entrance, as per the bottom graphic.

Hope this helps.  ;)
« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 06:29:40 PM by Wobbly »
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Offline Clint007

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Re: WCC 9mm brass with pseudo-ringer
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2019, 06:38:29 PM »
#1 What you have is a case with a crimped primer. #2 when you tried to de-prime the case the primer cup broke leaving the side wall of the primer in the primer pocket. #3 this case goes in the scrap bucket.

So it is a ringer?  That looks unlike all the ringers I?ve seen in 5.56 brass but now I know!

C


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Huh?

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: WCC 9mm brass with pseudo-ringer
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2019, 06:56:16 PM »
There are various tools available for removing the military crimp. I have one that cuts the crimp away and I also have a swager die set that removes the crimp. From what I can tell by your picture the crimp just needs to be removed before a new primer will insert in the case. Or you can just toss it out if you don't want to mess with it.

Offline Clint007

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Re: WCC 9mm brass with pseudo-ringer
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2019, 09:52:09 PM »
There are various tools available for removing the military crimp. I have one that cuts the crimp away and I also have a swager die set that removes the crimp. From what I can tell by your picture the crimp just needs to be removed before a new primer will insert in the case. Or you can just toss it out if you don't want to mess with it.

Then On first guess I?d say my swage station on my 1050 obviously needs to be adjusted.  That, or this is a brass that can?t be swayed by that particular die....

Now I?m wondering if this is actually a ringer embedded in the pocket?

C


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Huh?

Offline Ken6PPC

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Re: WCC 9mm brass with pseudo-ringer
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2019, 10:12:04 PM »
Looks like the "ring" of the old primer is still inside the case, and the top has been ripped off. 

If so, it can be removed with an awl, but it is usually more trouble than it is worth. 

I just pitch any of these that I find. 

Offline Wobbly

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Re: WCC 9mm brass with pseudo-ringer
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2019, 06:26:07 PM »
The photo you supplied is pretty much straight on. It's really hard to tell if you have a primer ring left in there, of the remains of a crimp. Either would keep the case from receiving a new primer.

A better and more magnified view is required.  ;)
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Offline Wobbly

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Re: WCC 9mm brass with pseudo-ringer
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2019, 03:24:56 PM »
I ran across some WCC and other military 9mm cases today and took some before and after photos. I use an RCBS Trim Mate for this job. The cutter was originally designed to chamfer the inside of a rifle case mouths after trimming, but it does great work on primer pockets too.

I have also done this with a drill motor or drill press and a conventional countersink tool. The point is, any bevel at any angle that removes the sharp corner makes things go much better.

Before...
Before Photo

After...
After Photo

 ;)
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 04:32:35 PM by Wobbly »
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Offline Clint007

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Re: WCC 9mm brass with pseudo-ringer
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2019, 03:33:02 PM »
Thank you I?ve been traveling and won?t be able to post a pic. Those cases look the same as mine tho...that distinct appearing ring must be a normal thing for those cases. My swager station in the 1050 did not fix it and I?m pretty sure it?s set properly. Perhaps this is a headstamp that is simply incompatible with that press technology.

C
Huh?

Offline Wobbly

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Re: WCC 9mm brass with pseudo-ringer
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2019, 05:16:04 PM »
Perhaps this is a headstamp that is simply incompatible with that press technology.


No, I'm about 95% certain your station simply isn't adjusted correctly, and this is because (like me) you're not seeing that many of them. I had to pour out about 300 to find 2.

I have no idea how I get these, or where they come from. They simply end up in my "load next" bin.

 ;)
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Offline painter

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Re: WCC 9mm brass with pseudo-ringer
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2019, 09:17:20 PM »
I can't see the pics.
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Offline 2bfree

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Re: WCC 9mm brass with pseudo-ringer
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2019, 01:55:59 PM »
I can't see the pics.
I can't ether, even tried 3 different browsers .

Offline Ken6PPC

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Re: WCC 9mm brass with pseudo-ringer
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2019, 03:47:50 PM »
Perhaps these will show up? 





I think wet tumbling with spent primers still in the case can cause them to stick just hard enough that when the case is sized, the depriming punch just tears the top portion of the primer off, leaving the ringer. 

Can't prove that - it is just a "feeling"...  Of course, crimped in primers can also do this without wet tumbling, and I am certain of that! 
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 03:56:26 PM by Ken6PPC »

Offline sberres

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Re: WCC 9mm brass with pseudo-ringer
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2019, 04:21:13 PM »
  If it were a ringer you should still see the rolled edge of the primer pocket meeting the edge of the cup.  Sure looks like a crimped primer to me.  If can see it as a pita if running a progressive but they should be visibly detectable during inspection. Either set them aside for special treatment to remove the crimp or scrap them if you don?t want to bother.
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