Author Topic: EVO cycling too fast?  (Read 535 times)

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Offline Underwhere

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EVO cycling too fast?
« on: June 30, 2019, 09:24:19 PM »
I have a pistol EVO and finally got it out to the range. The gun feels way "overgassed" both suppressed and unsuppressed.

I'm surprised by the punch this this has. My CZ handguns are softer shooting.

Anyone have this experience?

Running it suppressed I'm getting feeding issues with WWB ammo.

I also had issues with both Manticore and CZ mags not stripping a round and ending up on an empty chamber.

Offline OpusXJ

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Re: EVO cycling too fast?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2019, 11:05:55 AM »
The gun is direct blow back with a 1.5lb bolt, so it has quite a bit of mass moving around in it. Shoot it enough and you won't even notice it.

WWB is the only ammo I've seen issues with in these guns. Try using something better such as Federal, Fiocchi or anything else really.

Some people have had feed issues with the MA mags. Since you're having issues with OE mags too I would lean towards WWB being the issue, or an improperly installed aftermarket mag release.

Online John A.

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Re: EVO cycling too fast?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2019, 12:19:24 PM »
WWB is well known to be underpowered and among the junkiest and most inconsistent cheapest commercial bullets made today.

Plus, even with a can, they're going to be pretty loud because they're supersonic. 

Try some good heavy subsonics.  147, 158 or even 165 gr bullets if you can find them or make them.

For one, the slower bullets seem to be softer shooting and are moving slower.  And two, they have less powder in them.  And three, there's no real reason to be running supers through a can.
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.

Offline Underwhere

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Re: EVO cycling too fast?
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2019, 09:29:18 PM »
WWB is well known to be underpowered and among the junkiest and most inconsistent cheapest commercial bullets made today.

Plus, even with a can, they're going to be pretty loud because they're supersonic. 

Try some good heavy subsonics.  147, 158 or even 165 gr bullets if you can find them or make them.

For one, the slower bullets seem to be softer shooting and are moving slower.  And two, they have less powder in them.  And three, there's no real reason to be running supers through a can.
Interesting you say that about WWB. I buy a ton of that stuff when I don't have time to reload my own. I always found it consistent. For 115gr I chronograph it around 1240fps pretty consistently.

You make a good point about the subsonic. I haven't run any of it through the EVO yet. I always like to make sure my guns run on factory ammo first.

Perhaps it'll only run suppressed with subsonic... But as you said that's sort of the point.

Offline AzEvo1

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Re: EVO cycling too fast?
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2019, 10:19:33 AM »
I have a pistol EVO and finally got it out to the range. The gun feels way "overgassed" both suppressed and unsuppressed.

I'm surprised by the punch this this has. My CZ handguns are softer shooting.

Anyone have this experience?

Running it suppressed I'm getting feeding issues with WWB ammo.

I also had issues with both Manticore and CZ mags not stripping a round and ending up on an empty chamber.


Thanks for posting this as I was just out the other day and was using some WWB I had found way back in my safe. My Scorp was running similar to yours and it didn't dawn on me it was the ammo. :-[  I'll use up the rest in my AR-9 and go back to... well anything else but WWB's.

Offline Shadow-Too

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Re: EVO cycling too fast?
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2019, 08:46:02 PM »
WWB is well known to be underpowered and among the junkiest and most inconsistent cheapest commercial bullets made today.

Plus, even with a can, they're going to be pretty loud because they're supersonic. 

Try some good heavy subsonics.  147, 158 or even 165 gr bullets if you can find them or make them.

For one, the slower bullets seem to be softer shooting and are moving slower.  And two, they have less powder in them.  And three, there's no real reason to be running supers through a can.
Interesting you say that about WWB. I buy a ton of that stuff when I don't have time to reload my own. I always found it consistent. For 115gr I chronograph it around 1240fps pretty consistently.

You make a good point about the subsonic. I haven't run any of it through the EVO yet. I always like to make sure my guns run on factory ammo first.

Perhaps it'll only run suppressed with subsonic... But as you said that's sort of the point.

I agree.  But WWB always chrono's at 137pf plus.  Not exactly bunny farts.

Offline ndmiller

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Re: EVO cycling too fast?
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2019, 04:12:40 PM »
I have a pistol EVO and finally got it out to the range. The gun feels way "overgassed" both suppressed and unsuppressed.

I'm surprised by the punch this this has. My CZ handguns are softer shooting.

Anyone have this experience?

Running it suppressed I'm getting feeding issues with WWB ammo.

I also had issues with both Manticore and CZ mags not stripping a round and ending up on an empty chamber.

Nope, this is clearly an ammo related issue.  I've shot 147gr Fiocci Subsonics and S&B 115gr both suppressed since the pistol (mine is SBR'd) was introduced years ago.  Probably 4-5K rounds without any malfunctions or OEM Mag issue cleaning it 2-3 times.  Huge bolt creates huge recoil impulse, the very nature of a blowback system.  Pistol probably feels like more recoil than SBR or Rifle for sure based on how it's stabilized (wrist versus shoulder).  SBR feels like 300BO Subsonic out of an AR...pffft and nothing.  Carbine is heavier and has even less recoil.

Noah

Offline Underwhere

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Re: EVO cycling too fast?
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2019, 07:34:12 PM »
I have a pistol EVO and finally got it out to the range. The gun feels way "overgassed" both suppressed and unsuppressed.

I'm surprised by the punch this this has. My CZ handguns are softer shooting.

Anyone have this experience?

Running it suppressed I'm getting feeding issues with WWB ammo.

I also had issues with both Manticore and CZ mags not stripping a round and ending up on an empty chamber.

Nope, this is clearly an ammo related issue.  I've shot 147gr Fiocci Subsonics and S&B 115gr both suppressed since the pistol (mine is SBR'd) was introduced years ago.  Probably 4-5K rounds without any malfunctions or OEM Mag issue cleaning it 2-3 times.  Huge bolt creates huge recoil impulse, the very nature of a blowback system.  Pistol probably feels like more recoil than SBR or Rifle for sure based on how it's stabilized (wrist versus shoulder).  SBR feels like 300BO Subsonic out of an AR...pffft and nothing.  Carbine is heavier and has even less recoil.

Noah
I think you guys are right.
I'll run subs with the can otherwise run it without.

Offline bravo5two

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Re: EVO cycling too fast?
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2019, 08:18:03 AM »
I have a pistol EVO and finally got it out to the range. The gun feels way "overgassed" both suppressed and unsuppressed.

I'm surprised by the punch this this has. My CZ handguns are softer shooting.

Anyone have this experience?

Running it suppressed I'm getting feeding issues with WWB ammo.

I also had issues with both Manticore and CZ mags not stripping a round and ending up on an empty chamber.

What you're really feeling was the kinetic energy stored in the massive bolt/recoil spring slamming home, both in extraction cycle and chambering cycle. This is a classic blow back design very similar to Uzi.  The window of reliable operation depends quite a bit on better than puff loads.  My 5.3" did not run at all (failed to completely extract and then fail to chamber) when I used Freedom Munitions Reman and New 115gr 9mm. (1150 fps) Switched over to Sellier & Bellot 115gr (1280 fps) and she runs like a sewing machine.  It also likes the Federal 9BPLE +P+

The 16" EVO carbine did better with weaker ammo since it has more barrel length to build up back pressure, ran 100% with the same Freedom Munition stuff.

Offline Fuzzyreticle

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Re: EVO cycling too fast?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2019, 12:37:10 AM »
Most but not all 9mm sub guns and their semi auto cousins generally prefer 124gr and heavier loads.  I say “most” and “generally” because certainly there are examples that don’t. 

I want to say Israel even ran a specific 9mm load for the Uzi that was hotter than standard NATO 9mm.  Like others have stated a blowback system will have more perceived recoil than a roller lock or other delayed recoil system because physics is a real thing. The heavy bolt in a blowback design may overwhelm lighter loads causing a malfunction.

Of course all guns are different and it’s a bit of a pay your money and take your chances sort of thing finding the load your particular weapon prefers.  My scorpions run WWB just fine but they don’t group as well as any of the 124gr loads I use.  YMMV. 

« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 12:49:15 AM by Fuzzyreticle »

Online John A.

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Re: EVO cycling too fast?
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2019, 09:44:21 AM »
I want to say Israel even ran a specific 9mm load for the Uzi that was hotter than standard NATO 9mm.  Like others have stated a blowback system will have more perceived recoil than a roller lock or other delayed recoil system because physics is a real thing. The heavy bolt in a blowback design may overwhelm lighter loads causing a malfunction.

The Israeli's ran 158 gr bullets in their uzi.  But not because it was hotter.  It was because the 158 gr were slower.

The longer (11 inch) barrels would let 115, 124, and even often most 147 gr bullets go supersonic.  Which is not good on weapons that were suppressed.  So, they started using 158 gr pills.

When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.

 

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