Author Topic: no more polymer pistols for me, a 3 month review.  (Read 942 times)

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Offline DOC 1500

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no more polymer pistols for me, a 3 month review.
« on: August 27, 2019, 11:18:07 PM »
NO,  I'm not getting rid of my CZ's I do like them,
but just thought I'd pass this along.
Back in early June I purchased my first S&W, a 4006 TSW CHP. In fantastic condition from Summit gun brokers.
Coming from a background of carrying mainly for CCW a mid size CZ P-07 and a full-size P-09 polymer pistols mostly the P-09 , I was slightly intimidated by the all steel heavy frame and began to question my own decision of buying such a heavy pistol for CCW.
I'm not a big Bullseye guy and when I shoot I train for SD.
Still working on my trigger control, I believe it has a lot to do with my recoil flinch. Well maybe recovering from rotator cuff surgery on my strong side has a lot to do with it also, with time, and practice, practice, practice, I know things will get better and the groups will tighten up, but I am able to keep all shots with this 40 s&w from 25 feet in a LE silhouette
9 1/2" by 10" center-mass Zone.
All in all I really like the feel of this pistol, and the extra weight of this pistol just feels more comforting , because it is more robust then my Polymer pistols. things got even better when I switched over to Hogue rubber grips that I stippled for more aggressive grip.
I purchased a Don Hume holster for this pistol and absolutely love it. On my hip right now I almost don't even notice that it's there, especially with the added weight I'm not used to carrying ( that some said would pull my pants down, but has not happened , yet) Lol..
I am now completely sold on the idea of an all steel frame pistol.
Why in the hell S&W discontinued their 3rd generation pistols is beyond me knowing as little as I know, but what I do know is what a big mistake.
Looking forward to purchasing another 3rd generation as my toy wallet thickens.
At this point I believe I'm going to have this pistol and carry it for a very long , long time.
Just thought I'd share my thoughts. Doc
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Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: no more polymer pistols for me, a 3 month review.
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2019, 04:51:52 AM »
 They were discontinued in favor of the striker fired M&P line as that's what the main market wants today.There are very few if any law enforcement or military agencies today that will consider an old all steel pistol for duty carry. They are just not practical given all the other weight that a beat cop has hanging on his duty belt.   
The 3rd gen guns are high quality and very reliable but they were very expensive to produce and when new they were very expensive to buy. Today they can be had at reasonable prices in the surplus market and anything in .40 cal is cheaper yet since LE agencies are moving away from that caliber.
One thing to keep in mind with these old guns is that S&W also no longer produces any parts for them so any replacement parts will have to come from the secondary market places like Numrich.
I still have my 3rd gen 3913 but I haven't carried it in years. 

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: no more polymer pistols for me, a 3 month review.
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2019, 05:45:48 AM »
You get used to weight (unless it's excessive, and if you're young enough you get used to it, too, till you get older).

My duty belt back in the early 80's was just over 13 lbs.  I had no idea it weighed that much (mid 20's at the time) till we put it on a scale.

Belt, keepers, holster, M29 S&W, four speed loaders in pouches, radio and pouch, mace and pouch, nightstick ring, double handcuff pouch and handcuffs (I think that was it).  It was just there.  Never thought about it much, even after my partner picked it up off the desk one day while I was taking a dump and asked me how the heck I carried "that thing" around all the time.

I like my P01 Omegas but seldom carry one anymore.  The P07 is the EDC concealed pistol most of the time.  Not for weight.  For reliability, hand fit and darned small groups.

I look at those old S&W 3rd gens at gun shows at times.  Even had a stray/fleeting thought about buying one (especially the stainless steel models) at times but I've just never done it.

Never cared for the trigger pull on striker fired guns till I put the APEX trigger kit in that M&P 2.0 5".  Just unreal.  Totally different than the SA (let alone DA) of the CZ pistols.  Not necessarily better than the CZs, just different.

My .40 S&W CZs seem to really shoot the lighter bullets very well.  So well I've never gotten around to trying heavier bullets (yet, a few boxes sitting in the garage waiting for me to find/make the time to work on load development).

What brand/bullet weight are you planning to try in the old S&W?  Happy with what you're using, or looking for something better?
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline Joe L

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Re: no more polymer pistols for me, a 3 month review.
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2019, 06:31:05 AM »
Doc--thanks for sharing your experience with the heavy pistol.  I'll add my take. 
I've had both shoulders repaired.  Each time, I couldn't shoot for 6 weeks with that arm.  But it was a blessing.  I learned to shoot single handed standing both left and right handed.  Got pretty good at left handed shooting.  But the key was that I got much better shooting overall because of the constraint.  I think all I had was steel SIG P-226's at the time, including an all steel X-5 All Round and a Stainless Steel Elite.  The heavy pistols are what I shot the most during that period.  Physical therapy at its best.  My shooting skills improved significantly as a result of the shoulder surgery constraints followed by continued practice refining my new found single hand skills. 

As far as revolvers go, I have never gotten used to the grip shape of a GP-100 Ruger in .357.  But it is a great firearm, just not for me for carry.  I get it out for training classes just to let the students shoot something other than a 9mm semi-auto, but other than that, its in the safe, I'm afraid. 

But yes, given only one choice, it would be a heavy steel gun, probably my CZ-97B"E". 

Joe 
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C, P-10F

Offline Earl Keese

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Re: no more polymer pistols for me, a 3 month review.
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2019, 06:56:31 AM »
I have and carry or previously carried some polymer pistols. P99, P-07, P-10C, G43, and most recently a Shield 45. All great guns, but my heart is with hammer fired metal framed guns, primarily CZ of course. My current carry is a Rami BD I traded into with the expectation of not liking it. Turns out I love it. I still see value in the single stack polys though, maybe even a P365xl. I just don't connect with the larger framed polymer pistols for some reason.

Offline BStill

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Re: no more polymer pistols for me, a 3 month review.
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2019, 07:11:44 AM »
They were discontinued in favor of the striker fired M&P line as that's what the main market wants today.There are very few if any law enforcement or military agencies today that will consider an old all steel pistol for duty carry. They are just not practical given all the other weight that a beat cop has hanging on his duty belt.   
The 3rd gen guns are high quality and very reliable but they were very expensive to produce and when new they were very expensive to buy. Today they can be had at reasonable prices in the surplus market and anything in .40 cal is cheaper yet since LE agencies are moving away from that caliber.
One thing to keep in mind with these old guns is that S&W also no longer produces any parts for them so any replacement parts will have to come from the secondary market places like Numrich.
I still have my 3rd gen 3913 but I haven't carried it in years.
YouTube's "Lucky Gunner" has a video about the aesthetic value of putting his old 3913 back in his carryy rotation, despite the impracticality. 

the CS9 also looks like an oldie but goody.  if you can find one.

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Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: no more polymer pistols for me, a 3 month review.
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2019, 07:18:40 AM »
They were discontinued in favor of the striker fired M&P line as that's what the main market wants today.There are very few if any law enforcement or military agencies today that will consider an old all steel pistol for duty carry. They are just not practical given all the other weight that a beat cop has hanging on his duty belt.   
The 3rd gen guns are high quality and very reliable but they were very expensive to produce and when new they were very expensive to buy. Today they can be had at reasonable prices in the surplus market and anything in .40 cal is cheaper yet since LE agencies are moving away from that caliber.
One thing to keep in mind with these old guns is that S&W also no longer produces any parts for them so any replacement parts will have to come from the secondary market places like Numrich.
I still have my 3rd gen 3913 but I haven't carried it in years.
YouTube's "Lucky Gunner" has a video about the aesthetic value of putting his old 3913 back in his carryy rotation, despite the impracticality. 

the CS9 also looks like an oldie but goody.  if you can find one.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

I did quite a bit with the 3rd gen guns years ago.I learned to improve the actions pretty well and I even still have my 3rd gen hammer and sear stoning fixtures. Today I just don't carry the 3913 primarily because I practice extensively with what I carry and parts availability for the 3rd gen guns is scarce.
Even though I like the 3rd gen guns none of them could replace my PCR.

Offline Claymore504

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Re: no more polymer pistols for me, a 3 month review.
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2019, 07:26:19 AM »
Great post. I am actually in the process of thinning out my polymer handguns, minus my P07 and two P09s. I have a different reason and that is I am mainly back to DA/SA now and have a surplus of polymer striker fired handguns that are just taking up space. Just to make sure I want to do this, I took the striker guns sittung in the safe and my favorite DA/SA guns to the range last time. I enjoyed the DA/SA guns SO much more. I found myself firing the polymer striker guns just to do it, but I did not want to spend the ammo on them. Especially compared to my Elite LTT Beretta and SP-01 Tac. I will keep my P07 and P09 since they fill a role and are DA/SA. I will keep my Sig M17, P320 fullsize TacOps and P320 Sub Compact x-change kit. Plus my wife has her M&P M2.0 5inch 9mm as her HD gun.

As for the polymer striker guns taking over the market, it makes sense. Weight and the simplicity of someone learning the striker trigger. I would like to get a 4006 TSW CHP, but mainly to collect and not use.

Offline Stojanovich

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Re: no more polymer pistols for me, a 3 month review.
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2019, 07:44:29 AM »
I also prefer the feel of an all-steel gun but, have to come to appreciate polymer's place in this world, especially when I gotta carry.  That's when I really appreciate both my HK VP9SK and Walther PPQ 45.  They're just as accurate as any all-steel pistols I own and definitely more comfortable to haul around all day in IWB holsters. 

As I have gotten older, though, 1911's and CZ's have become my go-to's for range fun.  They're just more pleasant to shoot.               

Offline DOC 1500

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Re: no more polymer pistols for me, a 3 month review.
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2019, 08:21:05 AM »
Great post. I am actually in the process of thinning out my polymer handguns, minus my P07 and two P09s. I have a different reason and that is I am mainly back to DA/SA now and have a surplus of polymer striker fired handguns that are just taking up space. Just to make sure I want to do this, I took the striker guns sittung in the safe and my favorite DA/SA guns to the range last time. I enjoyed the DA/SA guns SO much more. I found myself firing the polymer striker guns just to do it, but I did not want to spend the ammo on them. Especially compared to my Elite LTT Beretta and SP-01 Tac. I will keep my P07 and P09 since they fill a role and are DA/SA. I will keep my Sig M17, P320 fullsize TacOps and P320 Sub Compact x-change kit. Plus my wife has her M&P M2.0 5inch 9mm as her HD gun.

As for the polymer striker guns taking over the market, it makes sense. Weight and the simplicity of someone learning the striker trigger. I would like to get a 4006 TSW CHP, but mainly to collect and not use.
The Distributors of the 4006 TSW CHP from what I've heard are running low. As mentioned above I got mine from Summit GunBroker $385 plus transfer. When the supply from the CHP trade ins Runs Out The Collectors price of these pistols is going to go way up.
The one thing I had neglected to mention in my OP was the trigger.
I thought the trigger on my P-09 was pretty smooth after doing all of the mods I did and all the polishing and springs I changed BUT, the smoothest of the S&W completely blows away the trigger of the CZ.
It is a little heavier  pull weight but the smoothness makes up for it.
the 4006 TSW is built like a tank to handle whatever service it went into. Also the consumer model of this pistol did not have an integrated accessory rail , it was built this way for CHP. Plus a couple other changes CHP wanted made.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 08:29:12 AM by DOC 1500 »
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A Lie is a Lie even if everybody believes it ,
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Offline DOC 1500

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Re: no more polymer pistols for me, a 3 month review.
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2019, 08:32:18 AM »
 if you really want to know more about this pistol here is an extensive write up about this pistol. Pretty much everything you need to know about it.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-semi-auto-pistols/525162-s-w-4006tsw-california-highway-patrol-chp-information-post139636293.html?525162=#post139636293
JOHN 3:16
2 COR.5:17
A Lie is a Lie even if everybody believes it ,
The Truth is the Truth even if nobody believes it !!!

Offline crosstimbers

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Re: no more polymer pistols for me, a 3 month review.
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2019, 01:47:47 PM »
I will inject my 2 cents. The market is how it is mostly due to cost. That's why LE agencies (I am a retired LEO) end up buying the polymer guns, and why manufacturers are producing them. They are cheaper and easier to make, and will usually underbid steel frame pistols. I own both, and like both. About the only misgivings that I have concern the one test that no manufacturer can actually duplicate, that being the test of time. I know that function trumps form, but I do like the firearms that I own to have as much of both as possible, and usually for me the steel frame guns are more pleasing to the eye as well as feel better in my hand.

That being said, I thought it was interesting that the OP had purchased a pistol used in California Law Enforcement. I bought a Smith model 6906 about a year ago, and was tickled to get it. According to everything I could find out online, it had been a California Prison System issued gun (probably a parole officer carry piece). However when I shot it, the accuracy was so bad that in less than six months I sold it. It had potential, it really wasn't all that heavy, if only it had worked for me.

Offline Old-Duckman

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Re: no more polymer pistols for me, a 3 month review.
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2019, 12:26:55 PM »
I also prefer the feel of an all-steel gun but, have to come to appreciate polymer's place in this world,... I really appreciate both my HK VP9SK and Walther PPQ 45.             

I am a BIG CZ fan but of all of the handguns I own (many brands, both poly & steel) I shoot most accurately with the Walther PPQ 45 a SIG 1911 in .357 SIG is a close second. Obviously one steel and one poly. I never concealed carry the SIG but the Walther goes with me when the weather allows and I want a .45 over a 9mm.

I praise the PPQ 45 whenever I get a chance, thanks for the chance.

Offline Vinny

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Re: no more polymer pistols for me, a 3 month review.
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2019, 01:12:13 PM »
S&W made so many models/variants of the 3rd Gen metal-framed pistols, it can be difficult to know which-is-which.
Here's a reference guide that covers most. In addition S&W made contract variations too.
 https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/guide-smith-wesson-semi-automatic-models/

I've lusted after a CS9 for a long time. Don't really need one, but it's one I would still like. I wish I could meld the magazine capacity of my P365 together with the CS9 alloy frame and DA/SA trigger. CZ, are you listening?? haha
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Offline deserttrans

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Re: no more polymer pistols for me, a 3 month review.
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2019, 06:49:45 PM »
Very good information! Thanks for sharing.